Handling Perform checks past 30 - Looking for suggestions

[Kalendraf]

My weekly group feature a 10th level bard that is capable of incredibly high Perform checks. IIRC, he has 13 ranks in perform, 20 charisma giving another +5, Hat of Peform +8 (which he recently paid to have specially crafted). Together it's a bonus of +26, meaning that with a high roll on his perform check, he can easily wind up with a number in the mid-40's.

The bard has been performing nightly at a bar in town. In the past I've been using the chart in the PHB, but it only goes up to DC 30, which are supposedly Extraordinary. I'm looking for suggestions on how to handle higher perform rolls. Is 3d6 gp the true upper max one can earn? Does this table need to be revamped? Seems likely that most higher level bards would be able to reach DCs well past 30 even without much if any magical aid.

Another problem with the high perform rolls is the Bard's Fascinate ability. The DC of the fascinate is equal to the perform roll, which is going to be impossible (barring a natural 20) for almost anyone to make. I realize there are a few restrictions on what the Fascinate ability can be used for, but it still can be very problematic. Any suggestions for handling this?

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Any suggestions for handling this?

Have you tried violence?

The Fascinate ability is geared toward being a crowd-control spell. If you are sending one or two big monsters at the party that's a pretty small crowd for the bard to control. Try smaller mosnters with greater numbers.

As for the perform skill .... I've said in the past that the focus in 3e is feats which is a shame because you've got all these pesky skills flying about. The 3.0 bard was thought to be weak (a mistaken view IMHO), so the 3.5 version now looks cooler on paper and can be an absolute monster in the hands of a clever player.

Well, the bard did pay the skill points and the gp for the hat, so he did earn this. It'd be the same way if one of your guys turned his fighter into a human chainsaw. I wouldn't reward him with more than 3d6 worth of gold. After all, he's playing at small bars. The town doesn't suddenly become richer just because the bard can really belt out "Land Down Under" by Men At Work or whatever.

However you may want to do the following:
DC 40 --- +2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate in the area for one week after the performance
DC 45 -- + 3 "
DC 50 -- +4 "

etcetera

 

[Ferret]

I know this isn't entirly on topic but how does a hat help perform checks? Did he pay extra for it not being related to the check?

If he ever plays somewhere special, like for a king and rolls that high though I'd expect he would get lots of praise!

 

[Kalendraf]

I know this isn't entirly on topic but how does a hat help perform checks? Did he pay extra for it not being related to the check?

I was mistaken about it being a hat. It's actually a ring. But that fact doesn't impact the fact that it exists and causes some really high perform checks.

Have you tried violence?

The Fascinate ability is geared toward being a crowd-control spell. If you are sending one or two big monsters at the party that's a pretty small crowd for the bard to control. Try smaller mosnters with greater numbers.

That can help, but sooner or later they wind up facing a small enough group or a single target where the Fascinate is overly powerful. By the description of Fascinate, until someone draws a weapon or makes an overt attack action (spell or otherwise), the target will likely just sit there. That means the party can get into position for flanking, etc. That does constitute a "potential threat" forcing the bard to make a new perform check and granting the target a new save, but chances are very strong that it won't make any difference in this case. Only when the party actually pull their weapons is it an "obvious threat" which breaks the effect.

I think the entire Fascinate ability needs to be revamped to take into account these incredibly high Perform checks which are almost impossible to save against. For example, setting the DC = (Perform check / 2) might be more balanced.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Or compare the Perform check to the Ability score modifier table and use that as a bonus to a base DC of 10. So a Perform check of 14 would mean a DC of 12.

 

[Kalendraf]

That's probably a bit better solution than a straight divide by 2 which would greatly penalize low-level bards. With your proposed method, a Perform of 40, would translate into a DC of 25 which seems a lot more balanced. A DC 25 Will save would still be a tough save for many characters, but not as absurd as a DC 40 check.