D&D 5E Hard Core Monster Manual

[fjw70]

I have been playing around with converting 4e monsters to 5e to be able to use 4e resources for 5e play. I want something quick and easy that can be done in the fly. Here is what I am using.

AC is calced based on equipment and dex.
HP is 4e HP minus 20 (minus 40 for elites and minus 80 for solos).
Attack bonus is prof bonus (based on level) plus the appropriate stat.
For damage use the listed damage values plus level.

A couple special rules:
If you want a monster to have some natural armor then 13 is the default. It can be adjusted up or down as desired (I do +/-2 intervals).
If a power requires an action or move type not typically in 5e (e.g. charge, shift) then just use the 4e rules for it.

I have only done low level so far but it is working pretty well. I don't really calc CR and just play it by ear. This gives a lot of monster variety.

 

[jmucchiello]

How hard is it give your orcs great weapon master? This is not hard to do on your own. What is the value of it being in "the book"?

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[DEFCON 1]

Yes, but I wasn't talking about "mega monsters". I was talking about Orcs that have unexpected abilities, Trolls that have alternative vulnerabilities or strategies, etc.

That's what I meant when I used "megamonster"as a simple term for what you were saying. Apparently I chose the wrong word, as it didn't make things simpler or clearer in my post.

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[MechaPilot]

One of the more intriguing ideas I've heard lately is for an alternative version of the Monster Manual with better monsters.

I think this is a rather interesting idea, and could even see myself ponying up for an entirely new MM, even if it contained the exact same entries. Honestly, I don't really need more monsters, I just want the ones I've got to have more variety.

Agreed. More monsters alone won't be enough to draw me in. I'd expect them to be of high quality, and to be very active participants.

The main thing I would want is more special abilities/actions for every monster.

Even better, if each monster had some variability. I think the idea of "Feats for Monsters" (c.f. another thread) raises an interesting idea. What if many/most/all of the monsters had a list of Feats, from which the DM was supposed to pick one? That way even players who had read the MM cover to cover wouldn't be 100% sure of what they were facing. (That is, for the kind of DM who describes his monsters by their name in the MM.)

I could also imagine monsters with multiple entries to cover a range of CRs (sort of like Dragons). It's always bugged me that all...fill in the blank...are exactly the same power. (My dream digital tool is a Monster Manual where you adjust a slider, CR 1 to 20, and the monster scales appropriately.)

I agree. I found I've had to modify monsters, giving them more abilities, to make them what I feel they should be. I had to add a rend-armor* ability to dragons to get them to properly reflect dragons in my setting.

*If the dragon hits a creature wearing heavy armor with its bite or claws the dragon damages the armor. A creature wearing damaged heavy armor grants advantage on all attack rolls against them until the armor is repaired.

What else could be in the Badass Monster Manual?

A list of revised CRs for the monsters in the original MM. Some of them certainly don't stack up to the CRs they've been given.

Better guidance for giving monsters PC class levels, or for just giving them PC subclass features.

And what would be the best name for such a tome?

Monstrous Compendium (since nostalgia and rehashing old names is such a big thing these days).

 

[fjw70]

Monstrous Compendium (since nostalgia and rehashing old names is such a big thing these days).

Just don't number it. Apparently numbers confuse video gamers.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately when I realized that I stopped playing with monster stat blocks a long time ago. Before that, I would read the stat blocks for a monster I wanted to use, quickly memorize it, and run it at the table without it in front of me.

I realized that the reason I was able to do that wasn't because of some superior memory on my part, but because all the stat blocks are so basic and so similar.

Eventually I stopped even looking them up and just imagine in my head a stat block that is appropriate. Sometimes I look the monster up later and they usually are very similar to what I ran. Often, mine are more interesting.

I'm very consistent, and my players trust me. In fact I'm not sure they've really noticed I do it.

At any rate, I'd be happy with a generic level appropriate stat block with simple but interesting plug-ins to make each creature more uniquely "them". I think I might make that.

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[Grubble]

If you're looking for harder monsters, check out the Tome of Beasts from Kobold Press. They seem much more difficult for their listed CR's than the vanilla Monster Manual monsters.

 

[Cyvris]

I've been playing around with just straight yanking monster abilities from 4e, some of them are grossly overpowered, but I've also heavily adjusted how spells recharge and given martial characters some at-wills so it balance back out.

Anyway, some examples from my game last night. The party is currently all level four and were fighting enemies ranging between level one and four. The basic soldiers they fought all had Martial Advantage, at least two had Shield Bash, and the commanders had Parry and Leadership. Later, they fought a pack of three Wraiths with Life Drain...right before the boss or the night who had Lair Actions that pulled the party into zones and immobilized them.

Yes, I'm a brutal DM.

Martial Advantage: Once per turn, this unit deal an extra 1d6 damage to a creature it hits with a weapon attack if that creature is within 5 feet of an ally of the Knight that isn’t incapacitated.

Leadership: this creature can utter a special command or warning whenever a non hostile creature that it can see within 30 feet of it makes an attack roll or a saving throw. The creature can add a d4 to its roll provided it can hear and understand it.
Recharge-3

Shield Bash: Melee Weapon Attack: +5, reach 5 ft, one target. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) bludgeoning damage. If the target is the medium size or smaller, it must succeed on a DC 14 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Recharge-4


Parry: creature adds 3 to its AC against one melee attack that would hit it. To do so, the soldier must be able to see the attacker and be wielding a melee weapon.
Recharge-6


Life Drain: Melee Touch The target must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or it suffers 1d8 necrotic damage and its hit point maximum is reduced by double the damage inflicted. This reduction lasts until the target finishes a long rest. The target dies if this effect reduces its hit point maximum to 0.
Recharge-2

 

[cooperjer]

I'm going to recommend Volo's Guide to Monsters. There is expansion on Beholders, Demons, Dinosaurs, Giants, Gnolls, Hobgoblins, Kobolds, Mind Flayers, Orcs, and Yaun-Ti. They also added an abjurer (CR 9), archdruid (CR 12), archer (CR 3), blackguard (CR 8), champion (CR 9), conjurer (CR 6), diviner (CR 8), enchanter (CR 5), evoker (Cr 9), illusionist (CR 3), martial arts adept (CR 3), master thief (CR 5), necromancer (CR 9), swashbuckler (CR 3), transmuter (CR 5), warlord (CR 12), etc. The champion and warlord are a progression of the guard and knight, martial NPC, a player might run into.

One of the things that I was thinking of putting together was a list of each feature a monster has. For example amphibious, ambusher, pack tactics, etc. This would help me increase the variety of the monsters with a little work, but then I would do less paging through the MM reading these features and then going, "Ah ha. That is the feature this creature needs for effective xyz tactics to make the encounter interesting."

 

[MostlyDm]

I agree in principle, but in practice I think things can operate differently. My mind keeps going back to the 2e module Dragon Mountain, which was a terrifying meat grinder of a dungeon designed for high level characters. The main opponents? Kobolds. Measly little 2 HP apiece kobolds. And they were slaughtering parties of high level PCs.

Used innovatively, even the most pedestrian of monsters can pose a challenge to a vast level range of player characters.

Absolutely, but as I think you know, this is different from the request at issue because those kobolds were not Infernal Kobolds of the Adamantine Fist (CR 14).

They are just kobolds. And they will ruin your day.

It's easy to run monsters in this way in 5e, and, in my opinion, more fun than just having constantly upscaled higher CR versions of previous monsters.