D&D 4E Has anyone seen/heard anything concerning Gestalt characters in 4E?

[Eyada]

Briefly put: Has anyone heard/seen anything about any sort of power-boosting variant (like Gestalt characters) to help compensate for having only 2 heroes in a party in 4E?


My group only has 2 PCs, a problem that was slightly alleviated in 3.5 by our use of the Gestalt variant from Unearthed Arcana. Based on everything I've heard about system scalability, I'm fairly hopeful we can just rely on reduced group sizes to make combat manageable; however, I'm worried that the inability to cover all four of the class roles will make combat unpredictably swingy. I was hoping that perhaps one of the developer blogs or somesuch had mentioned something about Gestalt or a similar power-boosting variant to help compensate for small numbers of players. Has anyone cooked up a promising houserule or seen anything from Wizards?

Much appreciation for any help.

 

[Craith]

I don't have the books yet (I hope to get them in a few hours), but would'nt granting them a template increase them to "elite" status, making each of them worth 200 xp equivalent?

So, maybe one of them wants to play a Vampire Lord or a Lich? Or, to really simulate Gestalt rules, let them add a Class Template from the NPC-Section - I think those would roughly double their hp, +2 to saves, a few additional daily, encounter and at will? - give 1 AP per encounter and allow them to spend 2 per encounter.

Sounds like Gestalt for me, but don't forget to half their xp gained, since they are effectively 2 chars in one.

 

[rrornyll]

I think a gestalt character would be tricky to create in 4e because of the economy of actions issue. Here are some ideas to make characters stronger without running into that limitation.

Mix and match:

1. Extra action points: either 1 every encounter (forget milestones completely) or a chance of recharging action points (say, 1 in 20 chance each combat turn)

2. Improve healing bursts and/or seconds winds: 2 second winds per encounter, seconds winds as minor actions (give dwarf a cookie to compensate), healing bursts heal 1/4 hp + 2 points, etc.

3. Allow each character to pick one daily power and make it (I forget the keyword -- dependable? -- the one that means you don't use up the power if you miss)

4. Obvious stuff: extra hit points, combat bonus, better saves, etc.

If you really want to go gestalt, maybe allow a third class in multi-classing (probably need to reduce ability score restriction from 13 down to 12 or 11). Allow one extra power of each type -- at-will, encounter, daily and utility. Lower cost of rituals.

Just some thoughts -- I have to head to the airport, maybe when I land and find a computer again I can add some more.

 

[BlackMoria]

In addition to the good advice above, I would suggest giving encounter powers and dailies a recharge capability.

Encounter powers recharge on

Daily powers recharge on

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Dunno about 2, but 3 characters is pretty close to the same (for figuring encounters) as 5 member party two levels lower than themselves.

The wife is running me solo, and I am running 3 characters (wanna try it anyway).

As the party of three is about on par with a party of 5 2 levels lower (but not quite), we also upped beginning abiltiy scores. Upping every ability score by 2 is a solid boost.

To add to that, what were thinking for gestalt (although not as strong as the 3.5 version) - you get all the multiclassing feats (the original, and the three trades) for free, and get the abilities of a paragon multiclass added onto a normal paragon path- Effectively a full 4E multiclass added as a bonus. Haven't played it, don't know how effective it would be.

Not as good as a second character, but it does let you cover more areas.

 

[Zurai]

My suggestion for Gestalt:

Pick two classes. You get the highest HP and Defense bonuses from those two classes. You get all Class Features of both classes. Whenever you are allowed to pick a Power, you may pick a Power of the appropriate level from either class.

It's a little weaker than 3.5 Gestalt, but it's still more powerful than plain characters and preserves the versatility advantage.

 

[silentounce]

I don't have the books yet (I hope to get them in a few hours), but would'nt granting them a template increase them to "elite" status, making each of them worth 200 xp equivalent?

So, maybe one of them wants to play a Vampire Lord or a Lich? Or, to really simulate Gestalt rules, let them add a Class Template from the NPC-Section - I think those would roughly double their hp, +2 to saves, a few additional daily, encounter and at will? - give 1 AP per encounter and allow them to spend 2 per encounter.

Sounds like Gestalt for me, but don't forget to half their xp gained, since they are effectively 2 chars in one.

I like this best out of all the above suggestions. Definitely with the class templates, I'd be a little more weary about the other ones, especiallly at low levels. As you said, this effectively makes them "elite", so they should be the equivalent of two characters.

 

[burntgerbil]

What about good 'ol NPC's, Followers and Henchmen ? What about just having one or two of them around ?

 

[Zurai]

Henchmen and followers are, by definition, weaker than PCs. Having to put up with all that extra management for weaker characters (that are likely to need to be replaced frequently) is more of a hassle than a help when you have a small gaming group. Plus, it doesn't address the primary draw of Gestalt: versatility.

 

[Gort]

We've got two different camps in this thread. Some want power, others want versatility. You're going to need two different solutions.

I don't see anything wrong with using the old gestalt rules updated to 4e - you get all the class powers of both classes, 4 at wills, 2 encounters and 2 dailies (at level 1). That addresses the versatility issue.

Then simply make them elite (like others have said) to address the power issue. Alternatively, just use easier encounters instead of making them elite.