Having trouble scaling encounters to make them challenging

[Friend of the Dork]

As far as the Wolverines go, they seem pretty boss-awesome to me.

3 attacks at base +4, +2 for augment summoning, +2 for bardic performance, +2 for flanking bonii, so that's 3 +10s, at 4 wolverines. Even against an AC 23 bbeg, they've got pretty good chances. Add in an alignment template for extra smite damage (for this case, Entropic or Celestial), and he's golden.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the summoning rules, he gets to summon them anywhere within close range (45' for level 8), and they get to full attack immediately, getting all of the buffs that affect the square they're standing in. If this isn't right, that'll be another issue I'll have to address.

You do realize there is 1 round casting time on Summon spells, right? That means they don't appear until the second round on the Summoner's turn (unless there is some ability I don't know about). Also, AC 23 is not very good for a BBEG, it's more like a standard fighter at low levels. A CR 11 cleric should be able to get enchanted shield, armor at least, bringing AC up to around 25. And since he was supposed to be spelled up, he should have Shield of Faith (+3 deflection) on. The wolverines are not too bad with their support anyway, but should not be the main attack!

Oh, I see the Summoner can indeed Summon as a standard action, but that means he can't use his Eidolon. Dismissing the Eidolon is a standard action, so I don't see how he could do all that in such short time, and the Bard certainly use normal rules for summoning.

 

[BuzzardB]

oh and CR for xp and such, I'm amazed anybody uses those rules. I've played RPG for years and never in one group ever did the xp for monsters get formally worked out.

Their estimates are either terrible or they assume very un-optimised characters. EIther way, if you're going to houserule anything, just throw the whole concept of CR in the bin and give out xp according to what speed of progression you'd like and monsters according to whatever is required to provide a challenge.

Yeah I don't normally use CR or XP but wanted to try out the official rules for this particular game and just assumed I was doing everything wrong because it just made no sense how those rules are how it "should" be.

 

[EUBanana]

As far as the Wolverines go, they seem pretty boss-awesome to me.

3 attacks at base +4, +2 for augment summoning, +2 for bardic performance, +2 for flanking bonii, so that's 3 +10s, at 4 wolverines. Even against an AC 23 bbeg, they've got pretty good chances. Add in an alignment template for extra smite damage (for this case, Entropic or Celestial), and he's golden.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the summoning rules, he gets to summon them anywhere within close range (45' for level 8), and they get to full attack immediately, getting all of the buffs that affect the square they're standing in. If this isn't right, that'll be another issue I'll have to address.

A wolverine with augment summoning has +6 to hit. Bard song is stopped by silence, flanking is stopped by bodyguards/a wall.

Cannon fodder is the most important bit of all. A 5th level fighter with AC 32 would be perfect.

 

[EUBanana]

Also, AC 23 is not very good for a BBEG,

Indeed. It looks like almost all the damage being dished out is physical damage, so armour class and debuffs to +hit are going to help a lot.

I think 25 is surely the minimum this guy can possibly have anyway, unless he's purposefully gimped himself. It wouldn't take a whole bunch of effort to get it >30 with nothing more than cheap consumable magic items.

Aura of Doom and that summoned archon might help a lot as well, it'd certainly promptly debuff any wolverines into certain uselessness, anyway. Aura of Doom lasts a good long time as well, so you could just lob that onto his existing buffs without feeling bad about it - there's a limit of how many 1 round per level buffs you can believably cram on I would say.

 

[Noir le Lotus]

Don't forget that Pathfinder APs are written for 4 PCs using the medium xp track.

I don't know when the encounter you describe is supposed to happen, but it seems obvious that with more PCs of higher level, an encounter written as difficult becomes a very easy fight.

About your concerns on the eidolon, most of the people who payed with a summoner told me that if the eidolon is too powerful, usually it's because the player made a mistake building it. Maybe you should reread the rules about summoner's eidolon and check with the player if he did every thing well.

 

[LogantheBard]

Don't forget that Pathfinder APs are written for 4 PCs using the medium xp track.

Right, we're purposefully moving faster and I'm scaling up the encounters as such. I guess this just boils down to my inexperience as DM showing. I've not run anything past level 5 before, so it's a learning curve for me on how to run things.

 

[N'raac]

On the wolverines, are they one of the many lower level summoned monsters who use Weapon Finesse, thus their DEX modifier, for attack rolls? I don't recall, and I don't have the books handy, but if so, augment summoning does not enhance their to hit roll unless it brings their STR bonus higher than their DEX bonus.

 

[N'raac]

I find a lot of GM's have difficulty moving beyond their own comfort zone, which depends on the types of characters they've played as much as anything else. If I'm a "spelled out Clerioc BBEG", I'm going to have spells to protect me from melee, and probably some Summoned creatures to get between me and the enemy. I'll likely Silence an area to make enemy spellcasting difficult, and possibly Darken an area as well to make their approach difficult. And that's not covering many higher level spells.

If a 10th level Cleric is just duking it out with weapon and shield, toe to toe, he's not really living up to his potential.

I generally find that, for enemy spellcasters, I have to go over their spell selection, often change it to spells I am more comfortable with, then set up the caster's battle plan. If he has time to prepare, he will use Round 1 to cast this spell, Round 2 for this purpose, etc. to the most time I think he will have (or he's ready to go so he initiates battle). On entering combat, he will take this action in Round 1, then 2, then 3, etc. Maybe I have some options (ie if engaged in melee his tactics change; if one enemy hangs back, perhaps he targets that one with a ranged spell).

The PC's work together, and each player runs a character for a lengthy period. They operate effectively. The enemy should have some sense of tactics if they are going to be a credible threat. Especially for opponents with a lot of options, the GM needs to know in advance how they will use those options. Otherwise, they either take forever to determine the opponent's action or, for fear of slowing the game, make choices far less than tactically sound on the fly.