Head of the Thieves' Guild

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Yeah, I don't think the "hardly ever uses violence, and only secretly" works.

The threat of violence is only effective as a motivator if it is real - a criminal is only going to share his money with some stranger if there are immediate and real consequences of his not doing so. And unless the crime boss is ready to use violence, the threat simply isn't real, and he isn't going to stay a crime boss.

So, I would come up with some other reason for the crime boss not flipping out.

1. Maybe he is a sociopath and is always calm and smiling. Think of the movie scene where Capone beats a subordinate to death with a baseball bat at dinner - until he starts swinging, its all smiles and joking. Or perhaps your villian's demenor doesn't change when he comits violence - that could well be much creapier.

2. Come up with some other story reason why he wasn't upset. Perhaps he already knew about it. Perhaps he had secretly authorised the crime, or has for some reason given permission for the third party to act (maybe as a favour to a political patron who wants to use a 3rd party to avoid someone connecting him/her/it with the crime boss). Perhaps the boss is even happy about it as knowing the perpetrator gives him a pawn to blackmail or to turn into a spy on a rival.

Personally, I prefer the second - it turns your problem into a story hook. So, when the players ask "why isn't he mad" tell them "Yeah, that seems very strange/odd/suspicious, doesn't it?"

 

[Trit One-Ear]

Yeah, I don't think the "hardly ever uses violence, and only secretly" works.

The threat of violence is only effective as a motivator if it is real - a criminal is only going to share his money with some stranger if there are immediate and real consequences of his not doing so. And unless the crime boss is ready to use violence, the threat simply isn't real, and he isn't going to stay a crime boss.

So, I would come up with some other reason for the crime boss not flipping out.

1. Maybe he is a sociopath and is always calm and smiling. Think of the movie scene where Capone beats a subordinate to death with a baseball bat at dinner - until he starts swinging, its all smiles and joking. Or perhaps your villian's demenor doesn't change when he comits violence - that could well be much creapier.

2. Come up with some other story reason why he wasn't upset. Perhaps he already knew about it. Perhaps he had secretly authorised the crime, or has for some reason given permission for the third party to act (maybe as a favour to a political patron who wants to use a 3rd party to avoid someone connecting him/her/it with the crime boss). Perhaps the boss is even happy about it as knowing the perpetrator gives him a pawn to blackmail or to turn into a spy on a rival.

Personally, I prefer the second - it turns your problem into a story hook. So, when the players ask "why isn't he mad" tell them "Yeah, that seems very strange/odd/suspicious, doesn't it?"

Won't lie, I've kinda been trying to justify an off the cuff comment I made that my players jumped on. I really do think he's got to be violent, and openly so. You're absolutely right, no one would respect him otherwise. As for why he's not mad about this one theft, I have a few outs: The other thief is a big player from out of town, so he could be too well-connected to touch. Or he gave a little symbolic pay to my guild head which is enough to pacify the crime lord.

The path I'm thinking of going is the jovial, good natured crime lord, who isn't afraid to do what he needs to do stay on top. When he was working his way up, he was rather violent himself, but now he has enough respect/fear that he's gained plenty of people who will do the violence for him.

Thanks for calling it out so clearly, I think I knew as soon as I said it that my idea of pacifist crime lord wouldn't work.

Trit

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Glad to help. My comments aside, I do find the "jovial to the public, brutal dictator in private" to be a very interesting and compelling depiction. Indeed, the most chilling and distrusted NPCs I've gamed with have been calm and forgiving... when a crime boss is all "buddy buddy" my inherent reflex is to run for the hills... that said, I cut my chops playing and GMing Shadowrun.

Personally, I would seek to make more of a hook than that. Make the reason something that runs to the root of his motivations, or something that the PCs can use for blackmail/influence when they learn the truth. Perhaps the thief was hired by a the wife of an influencial noble that he is cuckolding (aka he's sleeping with her behind her husband's back). Or perhaps he himself is being blackmailed/manipulated/intimidated by the bigger baddie. Or, perhaps he's a spymaster - a spymaster isn't angry that they discover an "enemy" spy, rather they are delighted... that discovery gives them a chance to turn said spy, learn about the enemy's spy network, and feed the enemy disinformation. Yes, I know the discovered person was a thief and not a spy, but the same principles apply.

 

[Dan'L]

Maybe he isn't mad because he knows he has underlings who will "rectify" the situation for him. If he does get mad, it won't be at the thief who pulled off the robbery, it will be at the underlings who let it happen/go unchallenged.

-Dan'L

 

[Loonook]

Hrmm... Happy, jovial crime bosses who are secretly sociopathic murderers...

Hrmm...

You can utilize a scene similar to DeNiro in the Untouchables . . . Or they could easily go around with the theme. Perhaps we could have a scene something along the lines of the players dicing with the leader and his cronys and the leader is just telling bawdy stories, filling wine cups, etc.

The night is improved by the addition of, ahem, some entertainment. As the leader sits with his chosen entertainer he begins discussing the cheating he had noticed during the game. When he finishes he forgives the crony, who laughs as he gets killed by his own entertainer, who then shifts into the leader's beautiful hitter.

Plenty of ways to just show his snap, from a beating of a subordinate to outright murder.. just decide how far you're going to go...

Slainte,

-Loonook.