Pathfinder 2E Healing in PF2

[Retreater]

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... The rule states you only lose the wounded condition if someone heals you with Treat Wounds which you cannot do in combat. Even Battle Medicine specifically states that it does not remove the wounded condition even if uses the same Treat Wounds DCs to heal in battle. This makes getting knocked out in battle very deadly.

Good to know. My players have been pulling a quick one on me. Haha. [Unless there's some feat going on.]
If someone drops to 0 HP, they're still Wounded no matter what unless they take 10 minutes and fully heal or get Treat Wounds.
It's still going to be really hard to kill a PF2 character with how quick healing can happen and the repositioning of the character's initiative (so basically we everyone gets a full turn to try to save them).

 

[Retreater]

Sorry, that didn't clarify the wounded condition for me- what does it actually do in play? How does it affect you if you aren't dying?

Nothing. Just makes it easier to fail your death saves.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

The entire purpose of the wounded condition is to make you more likely to die if you return to 0 HP without having had a chance to take a breather - that's all.

Theoretically there could be other mechanics devised that require the wounded condition or are enhanced by the wounded condition like how 4th edition D&D had effects that keyed off the target being bloodied, but as of yet there aren't any.

 

[Celtavian]

Is there any kind of alternate rule for those who do want attrition?

Also, what is the wounded condition like?

If you want attrition, just play monsters cruelly. It happens. So far the ranger is on animal companion 4. The bard has died. Rogue has died and been saved by breath of life. Everyone has been near death multiple times. You don't have to work very hard to kill them at all if that is what you want. The wounded condition don't leave until the combat is over and things hit real hard.

And you have to couple this with the fact it isn't as easy to come back. It costs by level. You don't get as much gold in this game. When the bard died, we barely had enough to bring him back. That would have taken out of gold to buy magic items. Dying has a a serious cost. Two people dying would have had the party selling key magic items to get them back. You need the cleric or someone to commit to increasing their religion check to use the cheaper resurrect ritual. Coming back isn't as easy as teleporting to some city and easily acquiring what you need to bring them back. It will take a chunk of your change and some time.

 

[Campbell]

The quickest fix if you want it take longer to recover from injuries would be to adjust access to Medicine skill feats, particularly Continual Recovery and Ward Medic. Unmodified the Treat Wounds use of Medicine takes ten minutes for a single target and that person cannot benefit from Treat Wounds for another hour. Particularly at low levels you can fail the check which can be quite punishing if they have the wounded condition.

 

[CapnZapp]

You remove Dying by receiving even a single HP. That isn't controversial or strange. Every edition of D&D has featured this - that once you get healing you're no longer bleeding unconscious on the ground (which is what "dying" is), you're instead fully functioning ready for action. In PF2 you probably need to stand up, and grab your weapon, so that cost (2 actions) is not nothing. Also your Wounded condition increase by one from becoming Dying.

Wounded is only removed by out of combat healing, simply speaking. You do not remove Wounded just because you drank a healing potion or got a healing spell. So the whack-a-mole problem of 5E is emphatically fixed by PF2, believe me.

There are other conditions that can't easily be removed. At really low levels, you have Diseased. You have Poisoned. At high levels you have Doomed.

I would say Retreater's characterization is not accurate.

 

[CapnZapp]

Is there any kind of alternate rule for those who do want attrition?

Any party without the Medicine skill comes close to what you want. You might also want to look at the Paladin, which I believe is specifically designed to be able to bring up party members between fights.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sorry, that didn't clarify the wounded condition for me- what does it actually do in play? How does it affect you if you aren't dying?

It prevents whack-a-mole - the minmax tactic where you (in 5E) observe that any monster damage that takes you below zero hp is "wasted" - 5E doesn't track negative hit points.

This makes it far too useful to waste monster attacks on heroes with only a single hp, since 99% of the damage gets soaked by the game rules. Then you bring back the "tank" using the bonus action Healing Word level 1 spell. You really only want it to give a single hit point, so you never upcast it using a higher levelled slot. Even martial characters can learn this spell. You can also use cheap low-level healing potions.

I'm not saying this tactic isn't ridiculous. I'm saying 5E enables it.

I'm also saying that Wounded is a mechanism that comprehensively shuts it down, and more in general makes it undesirable to fall to zero hp (which I want my D&D game to do).

 

[CapnZapp]

Nothing. Just makes it easier to fail your death saves.

No - please read up on Wounded.

When you fall to zero hp you gain the Dying condition with a value of Wounded +1 (Wounded +2 if you were felled by a crit). Normally this means you gain Dying 1 when you fall unconscious, since you didn't have any Wounded condition.

Once you do become Dying, your Wounded is increased by one, ready to make dying again more dangerous:

A character with Wounded 2 (having fallen unconscious twice before in this battle), for instance, would gain Dying 3 upon falling to 0 HP, and would be killed outright if felled by a crit. (You die at Dying 4)

I would say this instantly makes any tactic that relies on the game not tracking negative hp evaporates. A good thing.

 

[CapnZapp]

I really wish people would actually learn the rules before responding.