Healing Skill Check On The Dying

[jrz069]

Not to apply continuous damage on a dying horse but, it sounds like various DMs are running this differently.

Some disallow the DC 10 heal check on an unconscious ally, some allow it only if the unconscious ally has an available Second Wind. Nobody is joining the "if they have no Healing Surges" clause on to the DC 10 check.

We've been interpreting this along the lines of allowing the DC 10 heal check if they have a healing surge, but I dislike how this is playing out... the characters run to a fallen ally, start grilling them about their Second Wind status, debate the merits of attempting the DC 10 vs DC 15 check... takes all the drama out of the moment.

 

[Donatello]

Some disallow the DC 10 heal check on an unconscious ally, some allow it only if the unconscious ally has an available Second Wind. Nobody is joining the "if they have no Healing Surges" clause on to the DC 10 check.

Because the DC 10 check doesn't allow the spending of a surge, it allows the taking of a Second Wind.

If you want true drama, tell the players they can't tell other players about their Second Wind or Surge status when they're unconscious (or for maximum drama, their Failed Death Save stauts either). Make the one doing the Healing make a snap decision. I'll bet you most will go for the DC 15 first to ensure they're stable, then try the DC 10 check to see if it will get them on their feet.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Wow, do people really have such poor memories or is it they just pay no attention to what the other people are doing?

I definitely would not allow the discussion of who has used a Second Wind to include a dying character as they can't answer.

 

[jrz069]

Because the DC 10 check doesn't allow the spending of a surge, it allows the taking of a Second Wind.

Alright, I can buy that. What I've told my players is, just make the heal check. If you get a 10+ and the target has a Second Wind, poof, they get to spend it, and immediately go to (0 + healing surge value) per the rules on p 295. If the target doesn't have a Second Wind, then you need to have gotten a 15+, and the character is stabilized but still unconscious.

If the character has a Second Wind but doesn't want to use it, hit him again.

 

[starwed]

The decision of which check to try for seems a bit meta-gamey... why not just make one Heal check? If you make a DC 10, the target can use a second wind. If it has none left (or chooses not to, I guess) then it stabilizes if the result beat the DC 15.

 

[jrz069]

Wow, do people really have such poor memories or is it they just pay no attention to what the other people are doing?

I definitely would not allow the discussion of who has used a Second Wind to include a dying character as they can't answer.

Probably a different thread, but I've a hard time enforcing role-playing on anything so mechanics-y. Even if they're conscious, how exactly would they discuss this? "Dengar, has thou used thy Second Wind yet this encounter?" "No," Dengar groans, "though I greatly considered spending mine Action Point last round to do so."

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Since you literally spend a moment to collect yourself and tap your reserves of energy noticing and talking about it is something the characters can clearly do. Since Second Wind makes sense from an IC terminology standpoint I don't have a huge issue with it. The action point thing is a different matter but kinda the same thing.

 

[Contents May Vary]

I'll bet you most will go for the DC 15 first to ensure they're stable, then try the DC 10 check to see if it will get them on their feet.

Why though? Even if the recipient has no Healing Surges left, it will still get them back to 1 hit point.

From PHB pg 185:

"Use Second Wind: Make a DC 10 Heal check to allow an adjacent character to use his or her second wind without the character having to spend an action."

And from PHB pg 295:

"When you are dying and receive healing, you go to 0 hit points and then regain hit points from the healing effect. If the healing effect requires you to spend a healing surge but you have none left, you are restored to 1 hit point."

So it explicitly says that if you have to spend a healing surge (for example, for the second wind), and you have none left, you go to 1 hit point.

Of course, if the recipient has already used their Second Wind, then they will be unable to do this - so I guess there's the anwer: You have to stabilize if the recipient has already used Second Wind during the current encounter.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

[...]

Of course, if the recipient has already used their Second Wind, then they will be unable to do this - so I guess there's the anwer: You have to stabilize if the recipient has already used Second Wind during the current encounter.

Exactly. A DC 10 doesnt do anything what so ever if you have already spent your second wind, even if you have all of your healing surges left. The only time a DC 10 will ever work is if the character still has their second wind. For all other situations you need either a DC 15 or outside healing.

 

[BooleanFlag]

The decision of which check to try for seems a bit meta-gamey... why not just make one Heal check? If you make a DC 10, the target can use a second wind. If it has none left (or chooses not to, I guess) then it stabilizes if the result beat the DC 15.

I agree 100% with this comment. Bravo. Having the players "try" for either the second wind or the stabilize is silly and really prevents suspension of disbelief. "you kneel down to do the best you can for your fallen comrad - make a healing check." should be all of the discussion.