Help a DM stop killing his players

[bh2]

I've been DMing off and on since 2e and have really enjoyed DMing 4e. However, I feel like I'm turning people off of 4e due to my tendency to stick strictly to the rules when running pre-made modules. Often times the encounters end up being much too tough and people end up dieing or getting severely beat down. Most of the people I play with have been playing various editions of D&D for a long time, but that experience doesn't seem to be translating to success in 4e.

So, can I get some general advice on how to recognize when people are not having fun due to difficulty and how to correct the situation? Also, 4e specific advice would be appreciated too.

Thanks!

 

[Rechan]

1) How many PCs do you have?
2) What is the role/class makeup of your party?
3) Are the PCs using their abilities to aid one another/in a tactical manner?
4) Do they have a strong grasp of 4e rules?

It's very, very possible that the problem is in one of the above.

A caveat should be made for KotS's Irontooth encounter. That has lead to many TPKs, it seems.

The only other cause, if the PCs are playing straight, and you're running the module straight, is cold dice on their part or very hot dice on yours.

Because honestly, I've yet to even kill a PC. Only twice now have Pcs even hit negative HP in my game.

 

[bh2]

1) How many PCs do you have?
2) What is the role/class makeup of your party?
3) Are the PCs using their abilities to aid one another/in a tactical manner?

It's very, very possible that the problem is in one of the above.

A caveat should be made for KotS's Irontooth encounter. That has lead to many TPKs, it seems.

The only other cause, if the PCs are playing straight, and you're running the module straight, is cold dice on their part or very hot dice on yours.

Because honestly, I've yet to even kill a PC. Only twice now have Pcs even hit negative HP in my game.

1&2: I have dmed for 3 groups, one group: warlock, cleric, swordmage (assault), ranger, and artificer. Another was warlock, fighter, rogue, paladin, mage, rogue. The third was paladin, warlord, wizard, rogue, fighter, ranger.

3: I don't think any of the groups have fully 'gotten' the new group strategies too well

And yeah, group 2 got through the irontooth encounter okay, but group 3 had a tpk.

I've played around 15 RPGA modules and while I've had some tough battles, I never felt like it was overwhelmingly hard.

 

[bh2]

I just get the feeling that while it is true they are new to the system, they shouldn't be having this much trouble. And if it is just because they are new to the system, then I need to learn how to make encounters easier somehow.

Also, I was told by one of our older members that they felt like even in 2e I made things more difficult than they should have been. In 2e I tried to run adventures 'by the book' as much as possible, too.

 

[Rechan]

Another was warlock, fighter, rogue, paladin, mage, rogue

There's part of your problem right there. No healer, 3 strikers. Even if you have two defenders, still. Those rogues are in melee, and they are glass cannons; if they aren't getting in, stabbing and getting out, they are going to get hit, and hard. This is doubly true if the rogue runs out ahead of everyone, or gets surrounded.

Also, the third group had six characters and only one healer. He can only heal twice in an encounter, thus everyone must just rely on their second wind.

 

[malraux]

A caveat should be made for KotS's Irontooth encounter. That has lead to many TPKs, it seems.

I got 3 full TPKs* with Irontooth and almost a 4th. Irontooth is an evil DM's best friend.

*: because I'm not a big fan of character death, I had Irontooth capture the party and send them off to Shadowfell Keep to be used as sacrifices.

 

[Rechan]

I got 3 full TPKs* with Irontooth and almost a 4th. Irontooth is an evil DM's best friend.

To be fair, part of Irontooth's deadliness is that depending on how the PCs act (and the DM reacts), two encounters worth of monsters (inside and outside of the waterfall) might get combined. That is a recipe for disaster.

I personally think the modules are pretty brutal, if for nothing than just that they are a very long grind of encounters, rather than brief and tough.

 

[bh2]

To be fair, part of Irontooth's deadliness is that depending on how the PCs act (and the DM reacts), two encounters worth of monsters (inside and outside of the waterfall) might get combined. That is a recipe for disaster.

Yep, that's what TPKed my group

 

[DonTadow]

A very strange thread. It's easy. Stop killing your PCs. Modules don't DM, you dm. Else, there'd be no real reason to have a DM. IF you feel an encounter is too much for your party, or the way your party handles something, then its up to you to scale or increase to provide the appropriate challenge.

No edition or system has ever had a true monster to pc scale. DM'n is often like being a chef and your game is often like a dish. YOu're using a pregen module, but you still need to measure the ingredients upon what your guests like to eat. If i know that my guest is diabetic, then i replace the sugar with a sweet and healthy alternative.

 

[Zsig]

Dunno, maybe try giving them advices ingame, as whether it's a good idea to use certain ability or not (Dailies, for instance), also, keep reminding them about Action Points and Second Wind and such.

It's quite easy to get lost in the beginning and just rely on At-Wills to avoid confusion...

Once they get the grasp on the rules and mechanics/new concepts, you stop giving the advices, and let them decide for themselves.