HELP!! Demons, objects & Banishment!

[Luca Cherstich]

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It's my first time in this forum, sorry for my errros in english but I'm Italian!

Last night session ended with a great problem.
I need to fix it by monday night.
Please, tell me what you think about it.

During a fight a Demon (a Blood Fiend from the Fiend Folio) got an important artefact from a PC through the use of "dominate person" .
The round after another PC hits the Demon with a Banishing Maul (Book of exalted deed, p.113), a weapon with the same effects of the Banishment spell.
The demon fails the Saving Throw and goes back to the Abyss.

Here the problem: where is teh artefact?
I stpped the session due to the late hour, and baecause I have to decide what to do with the artefact.
If PCs lost this object my campaign will change a lot since it is the key to rule an army of 7000 tiefliengs.

The Argument is not explained in any of the books I've seen so far (core rules 3.5,BoVD, Fiendish Codex 1). I will see those books again (and maybe also the MoP orr the Planar Handbook).
What do you think about the situation?

A) HYPOTHESIS 1:
The artefact goes to the Abyss.
REASON WHY:
No rule covers the situation but usually, all the D20 spells (from Gaseous Form to Teleport) tend to effect both the creature and its equipment.
It is useless to look at the rules for possession in the BoVD or Fiendish Codex I: it is not a possessed object: the Demon was just holding it in his hand.

B) HYPOTHESIS 2:
The artefact does not go to the Abyss.
REASON WHY:
The spell makes the Demon going back its home plane, but the Abyss is not teh Home plane of the Artefact.
The spell should not have any effect on what is in the hand of a banished outsider.
A player explained the situation with a paradox: if the Demon holds the shoulder of a PC that PC does not go to the Abyss.

Personally I feel that this last explanation is pure (a PC IS NOT "EQUIPMENT") but I would like to hear what you think about it.
Please, answer as soon as you can, I need it by monday night!
Could you tell me also if you find an official explanation in any WoC book about what happens to the equipment of a banished outsideer?

 

[Matafuego]

In my opinion, both the Demon and the Artifact go to the Abyss...
Now what happens in the Abyys is another question entirely... Maybe a huge army of tieflings is invading the Prime in short time

Is it a rules question or an opinions question BTW?
If it's a rules question in the Rules Forum they will better, and morer founded, advice.

 

[smootrk]

If you are DM, then it can be whatever you choose, depending on how you want the events to unfold.

My personal opinion, most teleports, dimension doors, gates, etc. all allow carried equipment - otherwise folks show up naked, so I would say that the held object goes with the fiend. It is your player's fault that they discharged such a spell (the banishment) while such a coveted item is still in the possession of the demon - so I say you let the object go.

If you need to explain the object staying - you could rationalize that as the fiend was struck, the object fell from the being's grip, just prior to the banishment effect. The fiend juggled the item about trying to regain control but the item fell through his hands as he became insubstantial and disappeared, leaving a circle of whispy smoke where the demon was standing - and in the center of the circle, there lies the 'artifact'.

 

[Merkuri]

It's okay to make up rules that fit your situation. If it's better/easier/more fun for your campaign to have the artifact not be banished with the fiend then rule that because it's an artifact it disrupts the banish spell and stays behind. That could even be a power unique to that particular artifact that just hasn't been discovered until now. Just make sure that whatever you decide that you stay consistent. The next time that artifact gets banished, make sure it stays behind.

Because it's an artifact, anything could happen. There's very powerful magic at work here, and there's a third possibility that you haven't considered. The artifact could go somewhere else. The mix of the banishment spell with the artifact's special magic might make things go screwy, so the fiend goes in one direction and the artifact goes in another.

Basically, you're the DM. Do whatever you want, just make sure you stay consistent.

 

[Vanye]

I'd say decide what's best for your story:
If your PC's are at a point where they could possibly research the home location of the fiend, and get there, and retrieve the artifact, and it wouldn't disrupt what's going on in the campaign world too much, I'd say go for that option.

If you don't have the time to design such an adventure, then the artifact stayed. Why? Because artifacts are immune to most mortal magic, and was unaffected by the power of the weapon.

If you want more of a rules based answer....was the demon Called, or Summoned. Summoned creatures are basically copies of the original, and when they are "killed", the real version is unaffected. Called creatures are the actual creature, and thus are subject to permanent changes. If the creature was brought into the fight via a Summoning spell, then the artifact should stay when the banishment spell disrupts the Summoning. If it was called, the creature would be able to take whatever it has with it if it can make it back to it's plane somehow (via a gate spell, perhaps) so it should theoretically be able to take it.

However, I'd go for what works for your campaign best - if the pc's are under a time crunch, artifact stays; if they have the time & resources to research and go where they need to go, and you've got the time to create the side adventure, they should go looking for the artifact.

 

[blargney the second]

The fiend goes back to the Abyss.

The artifact goes off to the plane that you retroactively decide it was created on.

The adventurers can choose to go after either.

 

[pawsplay]

Unless the fiend's gear drops to the ground, too, leaving him naked, and that's how you want planar spell to work, then the artifact goes with the fiend.