Help Me Fix The Whip

[Kabol]

To preface, One of the hotly debated things among my group is the cookie cutter syndrome. You know what I mean .. Full Plate, Great Sword, Longsword. Never see a Falcion or Scythe, yadda yadda.

Ok, to my point. I was lookin though the PHB today and noticed something i had not seen before. The Whip, its so underpowered.

1) Deals no Dmg to armored targets (+1 or higher armor bonus, +3 higher
natural armor). And when does its subdual
2) Exotic, so need a Feat to use it properly
3) Threatens No squares
4) Provokes attack of Oppertunity to use it when Threatened
5) Cant attack Adjacent Foes

On the plus side, its got 15' reach. So its one more square then most reach weapons. And you can Trip and Disarm with it, But. Am I the only one that thinks that for the Exotic feat you have to spend to use it you should get ... more out of it?

What about Feats? I havent seen any Whip related Feats?

IMHO, if the whip Just threatened the 15' then it would be balanced. Or if you could attack with it while threatened, it would be balanced. But a lack of Both, seems very harsh, To Harsh.

What you all think?

 

[LazerPointer]

IMC the PC's will soon learn that gnomes can use the whip w/o the exotic feat. I'm thinking of doing the same thing for bolas, making them simple for some barbarian tribes.

 

[Nifft]

Here's an idea that's been kicking around in my mind -- scaling weapons by Feats.


Whip as Simple Weapon:
- It's neither Melee nor Missile -- it does not threaten, and you cannot use missile weapon feats with it.
- Deals 1 nonleathal damage, unless your foe has any armor or +2 natural armor (or better). Using it provokes an AoO.
- Only useful for trip attacks and such.
- Also good for "Handle Animal" checks to "Push" an animal. Grants a +4 bonus and allows the check as a move action up to 15 feat away.

Whip as Martial Weapon (available to everyone who has "all Martial weapons" or via a feat):
- It's neither Melee nor Missile -- it does not threaten, and you cannot use missile weapon feats with it. Using it provokes an AoO.
- Deals 1d3 nonleathal damage, unless your foe has full armor (helm, gauntlets, etc.) or +4 natural armor (or better).
- Good for trip attacks and such. +1 bonus on those checks.
- Also good for "Handle Animal" checks to "Push" an animal. Grants a +4 bonus and allows the check as a move action up to 15 feat away.

Whip as Exotic Weapon (available via a feat):
- It's a missile weapon. You can use feats like Rapid Shot and Precise Shot.
- Deals 1d6 nonleathal damage, or 1 normal damage.
- Great for trip attacks and such. +2 bonus on those checks.
- Also great for "Handle Animal" checks to "Push" an animal. Grants a +8 bonus and allows the check as a move or an attack action up to 15 feat away. Allows the check to be made untrained.


-- N

 

[Kabol]

To me, the whip is really jsut a tripping/disarmign tool. Its lack of dmg and considered as ranged make is so. But the lack of threatening really hampers it down to almost useless.

 

[RangerWickett]

Make one change to the whip, and it's perfectly balanced -- let it hurt things with armor.

Shuriken, little pieces of metal maybe 3 or 4 inches long, can be flung 50 ft. and still hurt a man in full plate.

A whip, which, by accounts I've read and heard, can rip flesh from the hide of a cow, ought to be able to hurt someone in full plate when they're 15 ft. away. Heck, it might not even be cutting. It might involve wrapping the whip around the victim's wrist and yanking, nearly dislocating their shoulder, or just bludgeoning the victim on his forehead, stunning him.

But make this one change, and the whip is fine. Put a +5 flaming, shocking, frost, wounding whip in the hands of a 30 Str, 20th level fighter with Great Cleave or Whirlwind Attack, and while it won't be a great weapon for killing a dragon, it's phenomenal for taking down hordes of minions. And, oh look, it's a one-handed weapon, which means you can Power Attack with it.

I'm working on a book all about whips. It's EN Arsenal: Whips, to be published some time later this summer by E.N. Publishing. It'll be second or third in the series, which will start off with EN Arsenal: Spiked Chains, to be released in early July.

 

[RangerWickett]

Oh, and I did once have a frightening PC who dual-wielded whips with Improved Trip. His basic tactic was to win initiative, rush forward, trip all the henchmen, and clear the way for the party to rush the main villain.

Let me assure you, in the plainest way possible, allowing whips to be used for attacks of opportunity is too powerful. In the book I'm writing, one feat lets you make AoOs out to 5-ft., and it takes a second feat to make AoOs out to 15-ft. I let the PC playtest some of the stuff I was using, and dang, a 22 Dexterity, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip combo, even at 8th level, is just vicious. True, he was out of luck if I threw a big monster at them, but it was mostly a humanoid-heavy game, so he rocked.

 

[haiiro]

Make one change to the whip, and it's perfectly balanced -- let it hurt things with armor.

There are whips that do normal damage in at least one of the splatbooks (MotW, perhaps also S&F), including a mighty one that takes STR into account. If this is all whips need to be useful, you can work it in without any house rules at all.

 

[Kabol]

They have bladed whips - but agian, its not really a Damaging tool, its best used as a trip/disarm tool. But its lack of threatening, and casueing an AoO to use really nerfs it to useless

 

[Tuzenbach]

Can't a skilled user choke an opponent with a whip?

 

[Kabol]

Choke?
well - im sure you can, but its not listed out as one of the Abilities of the whip in the PHB.