Help me out. PoL. Why don't small towns get overrun?

[Gentlegamer]

Brainstorming:

Idea: some settlements pay tribute to stronger neutral/somewhat evil forces for protection against other more harsh/destructive/evil forces that may threaten it.

Idea: some settlements pay tribute to a Knight (of any alignment) and his retinue of men-at-arms for protection (historically accurate)

Idea: good-aligned rangers (like the Dunedain from Lord of the Rings) work to keep dangerous forces at bay in the wilderness keeping quiet places like the Shire and Bree "safe"

Idea: good/neutral aligned wilderness monsters help stem the tide of evil (i.e. Beorn from The Hobbit)

Idea: some settlements are evil themselves, and it is visitors who should be cautioned (my character was once asked to help defend a halfling village from evil humans . . . turned out the halflings were evil werewolves being targeted by the humans)

 

[eleran]

I think the problem is the idea people (and probably WotC) have of Points of Light is scattered footholds of civilization surrounded by OCEANS OF MONSTERS!!!!

A true PoL setting is something more along the lines of Middle Earth though. It isn't that the world is filled with evil creatures all over the country side, it is that the world is mostly barren of civilization. In this barren wilderness, adventurers occasionally encounter monsters (Bilbo and the Dwarves don't fight Trolls all the way to Rivendell, they encounter one group on the entire journey for example.)

In other words, the country side is extensive and dangerous in a PoL world, but that doesn't mean there are armies of organized monsters roaming the countryside pillaging all the small settlements.

I would agree. I think people are giving way too much population density to the monsters in the PoL ideas.

The monsters are not lurking in the darkness just waiting for someone to step out of town and be gobbled up. The monsters are out there living their lives, competing for resources, inhabiting dungeons and caves, gnomes in their lairs, etc. However, if an unarmed group of peasants head into the local forest for a picnic is is no better than a 50/50 proposition that they become the interest of a pack of wolves looking for a feast. They don't even have to encounter orcs, or bullettes, or illithids, just wolves.

 

[Clawhound]

Question: When outsiders/monsters attack a civilization, why don't all the cities fall at exactly the same time?
Answer: All the cities are not attacked at the same time.

All place are not equal. They are not threatened with equal measure at the same time.

For example, a town survives an orc army while the nearby city falls. That happened because the orcs were far more interested in raiding the city and so did not deploy enough resources to take the town. The villages beyond the town survived because the orcs stopped to siege the town.

In the middle ages, they built castle. One idea put forth is that the nobility could hold up in their castles until Autumn when invaders would need to pull back to a wintering position. The local nobles would then come out and reclaim their territory.

In the same way, just because some force came through does not mean that the force actually established control of the territory. Instead, the nobles rode out the danger, then reestablished their claims.

This means that a settlement can survive even if it loses. A settlement only goes extince when no one is left to live there, either through death or flight.

The if the settlement has been conquered, it may have been conquered by anyone. That noble human family may have userpers several generation back. Maybe some dwarves or elves came in and took over.

 

[lukelightning]

There are also degrees of PoL. It doesn't have to be little islands of civilization in a raging sea of Dangerous Evil. It could be islands floating in a sea of Cruel and Indifferent Nature, with some Dangerous Evil thrown in, just enough to keep people scared and isolated.

I like the PoL idea for a campaign setting oh so much. I ran an Arcana Unearthed game, set in the Diamond Throne, and it felt problematic. The Diamond Throne seems very non-PoL; the benevolent and orderly Giants have acted as stewards of the land for hundreds of years. Their civilization is powerful and sophisticated, and while they rule by wisdom and diplomacy they are no slackers when it comes to force of arms. As a DM I found it hard to justify why a tribe of hostile goblins would be in the hills near a town, when the giants would probably stomp them out quite readily.

Oh, and there are many reasons why a small town hasn't become overrun. A good old classic is that the Baron/Mayor/Council/Circle of Elders has a secret deal with some Sinister Power. Why don't the gnolls overrun Sheepton? Because unbeknown to the general populace, the town council performs blood sacrifice each season to He Who Is Not To Be Rickrolled. And "coincidently" one of the PC's friends/relatives/bff's has vanished mysteriously...

 

[Surgoshan]

I think this is a wrong conclusion. In history humans performed genocide on others because of religion or skin color (and it is still happening).

The race issues in the Darfur region of Sudan are mostly an excuse. The real issue is over the use of the land. One group is nomadic herdsmen, the other is farmers. There's certainly racial genocide there, but the base issue isn't race, it's livelihood in a region that can't support both lifestyles. In other words, they're not so stupid that they'll pointlessly kill off people for funsies and hatred; they're doing it so they can move in and farm (or herd) on the land themselves. If a tribe of gnolls were to eliminate a hamlet they'd have to have a pretty good reason for it.

 

[smathis]

Apparently better then you. In a fight Bugbear vs. Human my money is on the Bugbear.

Depends on the human.

I mean, are we talking about a "Bugbear vs. John Stewart" or a "Bugbear vs. Hulk Hogan".

Because Hulkamania's Running Wild, brother!

 

[Gentlegamer]

A bugbear loses to Chuck Norris.

And Mike Ditka.

 

[smathis]

It could also be a question of geography. The Hopi Indians survived primarily because they were living on top of a big mesa and were hard to reach. They also had a client tribe to help protect them.

So maybe the small village is on a similar plateau or something that is hard for monsters to reach. Or maybe the people live in the midst of these giant ruins that provide fortification.

Or maybe they live in underground bunkers like in Earthdawn (actually they probably would if things got bad enough).

People can be pretty persistent about this whole staying alive thing. Our ancestors made it through an Ice Age, after all. And that wasn't so much Points of Light as it was "Specks of Places to Not Freeze to Death".

 

[Orcus]

So, I love the idea of a PoL setting. I'm pilfering maps and themes from various campaign settings, and adding a dash of my own stuff. But a question keeps nagging me during this process, and it's this:

If the world is filled with big, bad, evil things in the wilderness that separates scattered settlements, why haven't these towns been overrun?

Does every community have to be a reinforced settlement with walls, a strong militia, etc.? Is there no room for simple hamlets with a couple run-down cottages?

Anyone had this concern or tackled this issue?

Wis

Didnt you read in the DMG?

1st level monsters stay in the 1st level monster part of the world, which is by the 1st level villages. 5th level monsters stay in the 5th level part of the world. 10th level monsters...you get the drift.

If the 10th level monsters went to the 1st level part of the world, they would just take over. We cant have that, so there have to be restrictions.

Some have postulated that it is like those sonic collar things that you can get for your dog, with the sensors that you put up around your yard. They stay were they are and cant leave the area of they feel an intense pain.

Other than that there is really no good reason, never has been.

Clark

 

[sirwmholder]

I tend to think of PoL as being similiar to "The Village" movie that came out a few years ago. The communities are hidden away and the locals have their own superstitions and hiding areas in case the things that go bump in the night wander too close. At night all doors are barred and windows locked. Does that mean everyone is always safe? No, and that's where the Adventurers come in.

Just a thought,
William Holder