Help me stop the abuse of Polymorph Other

[Thanee]

The spell is definitely broken. It's the best save-or-die spell and the best buff spell of its level (and a few thereafter as well), all in one.

There is a fix for the polymorph other problem in 3.0 (and the spell is a problem, even though this problem might not show in everyone's game), that is to seriously nerf polymorph other by taking away its ability to be "exploited" as a buff spell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

I will say that I've seen polymorphing into a dragon work well once: when my PC's fire immunity was dispelled in the elemental plane of fire, I thought I was toast. The quick-thinking party sorcerer read a scroll of polymorph and turned me into a red dragon, however; since in 3.5 you gain the type and subtype of your new form, I gained the fire subtype, and was immune to fire again .

Heh.

I find this amusing from a mental image point of view.

"Quick - here where the very air is on fire, he won't last long! Pull out your magic piece of paper!"

I'm slightly curious as to why you would stick with 3.0 anyway, but that is probably another thread.

... so many reasons...

-Hyp.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I can think of a reason why the dragon won't dispel - it hardly works. Dragon caster level tends to be 6 or so points below its CR.

 

[Epametheus]

Tome & Blood has an erratta of the spell that sets the hit die limit (with a cap of 15 hit dice), and sets several types (including outsider) off-limits. I can't remeber if Dragon was set off-limits or not, but turning into a young dragon and losing access to your equipment is a downgrade for most high-level adventurers.

 

[Unseelie]

For a dispell magic to work it has to know that the dragon is not the real McCoy.

Just how does it work this out without abusing my position as the GM using out of game knowledge?

I'm an evil dragon. If I were going to attack an enemy dragon in its lair, I would be buffed in advance.

It is not unreasonable for the Red Dragon to, therefore, assume that the Gold Dragon is likewise buffed up. Dispel Magic is a perfectly reasonable leading spell in that situation.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Although it's contentious (what isn't about polymorph?), there is a line of argument that "This spell functions like alter self" means that the subject of the spell cannot be polymorphed into a creature more than one size smaller or larger than its natural size. That is, the statement in the spell dedscription that "You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine" is simply another, subordinate limitation on size, not an overriding one (i.e. if the willing subject is already Fine, it can't be polymorphed into something even smaller, like a bacteria). If you follow this line of logic - as I have for game balance reasons - your average 1st level volunteer is not going to be polymorphed into anything bigger than a Large dragon (assuming your average 1st level volunteer is a Medium humanoid).

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Darklone]

Another viable tactic for a dragon who sees another dragon and some humans coming after him would be: Try to split them up. E.g. fly away and hope the other dragon will follow. If not, buff up and attack...

And a buffed dragon is usually pretty scary.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

As was previously stated, the HD rule is 3.0. It was erratta'd in Tome and Blood.

As a fighter/wizard who had access to Polymorph Self in a previous campaign, and examined it from every possible angle, let me say that it's strong, but not as overpowered as some people seem to think.

First of all, a dragon doesn't wear a lot of magic items. Cheesy dragon splatbooks aside, you'll probably get a couple rings, a headband, maybe bracers. Hardly the plethora of magic item slots a standard PC has. And any items that cannot be worn by the new form are absorbed and cease to function. That's hit number one.

Dragons don't use weapons. So a fighter-type who's invested in Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, etc. is going to lose the use of some of their feats. Hit number two.

You don't get any extra hit points (though you do heal up a bit). So you are a load weaker than an actual dragon. Even worse, depending on whether or not your DM allows dragons to wear amulets. (And even if your DM does allow it, the red dragon is going to figure something's up when he sees a gold dragon decked out in biped trinkets!)

As a powergamer, my character hardly ever changed into a dragon. You simply can't get a strong enough dragon that's at your wizard's caster level. (And my fighter/wizard was a homebrew class that had a full wizzie's caster level, so I was playing with the full range.) He only did it when he needed to fly for long periods, and didn't have Fly handy. Or to show off.

The most powerful (possibly abusive) way to use Polymorph is to change your party fighter into a troll or stone giant or annis hag. Humanoid forms let your fighter use all his equipment, plus gain serious strength and natural armor. But dragons? Don't sweat dragons at all.

And the instant any intelligent foe sees a group of adventurers, one of which is a troll/giant/annis hag, guess which spell will be first on it's casting list?

 

[Tom McCafferty]

As was previously stated, the HD rule is 3.0. It was erratta'd in Tome and Blood.

As a fighter/wizard who had access to Polymorph Self in a previous campaign, and examined it from every possible angle, let me say that it's strong, but not as overpowered as some people seem to think.

First of all, a dragon doesn't wear a lot of magic items. Cheesy dragon splatbooks aside, you'll probably get a couple rings, a headband, maybe bracers. Hardly the plethora of magic item slots a standard PC has. And any items that cannot be worn by the new form are absorbed and cease to function. That's hit number one.

Dragons don't use weapons. So a fighter-type who's invested in Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, etc. is going to lose the use of some of their feats. Hit number two.

You don't get any extra hit points (though you do heal up a bit). So you are a load weaker than an actual dragon. Even worse, depending on whether or not your DM allows dragons to wear amulets. (And even if your DM does allow it, the red dragon is going to figure something's up when he sees a gold dragon decked out in biped trinkets!)

As a powergamer, my character hardly ever changed into a dragon. You simply can't get a strong enough dragon that's at your wizard's caster level. (And my fighter/wizard was a homebrew class that had a full wizzie's caster level, so I was playing with the full range.) He only did it when he needed to fly for long periods, and didn't have Fly handy. Or to show off.

The most powerful (possibly abusive) way to use Polymorph is to change your party fighter into a troll or stone giant or annis hag. Humanoid forms let your fighter use all his equipment, plus gain serious strength and natural armor. But dragons? Don't sweat dragons at all.

And the instant any intelligent foe sees a group of adventurers, one of which is a troll/giant/annis hag, guess which spell will be first on it's casting list?

Interesting...

What would happen to the fighter's feats, such as cleave or combat reflexes as a dragon. Should they get them too? They are certainly initially unfamiliar fighting with a dragon's claws etc?

Should they be even allowed multiple attacks with out having the monster specific feats for using natural weapons?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Although it's contentious (what isn't about polymorph?), there is a line of argument that "This spell functions like alter self" means that the subject of the spell cannot be polymorphed into a creature more than one size smaller or larger than its natural size. That is, the statement in the spell dedscription that "You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine" is simply another, subordinate limitation on size, not an overriding one (i.e. if the willing subject is already Fine, it can't be polymorphed into something even smaller, like a bacteria). If you follow this line of logic - as I have for game balance reasons - your average 1st level volunteer is not going to be polymorphed into anything bigger than a Large dragon (assuming your average 1st level volunteer is a Medium humanoid).
Cheers, Al'Kelhar

I believe that that line of thought invalidates most of the examples within polymorph any object (specifically the shrew-manticore transitions) as polymorph any object says that it functions like polymorph, and doesn't specifically state that it removes any restrictions.

So - you should probably admit that your 'interpretation' is a full-blown houserule.