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Help on Bard Build - It's a matter of pride, folks.
- Thread starter Scratched_back
- Start date
CronoDekar
First Post
I'm not that good with min/maxing, but just some general stuff. For one, if either of your clerics regularly casts Bless, ask them to stop that since both that and Inspire Courage gives morale bonuses (also keep in mind Inspire Courage is +1 to hit AND damage). Often times you can just activate it as a standard action one round and drop it when you need to cast something, and it'll keep going for five rounds.
It does look like your party could use something of an enchanter-type, so I would put some focus of your spells in there. Combine those with usage of Bluff and Diplomacy and you have a mind-manipulating machine. As for these early levels, Grease is also a nice spell with its versatile usage. And this doesn't really apply now, but bard gets some fun exclusive spells at later levels, such as Glibness (+30 bluff to lies is certainly nothing to scoff at), Modify Memory, and Improvisation (which I think is in CAdv now).
If you're concerned about he minimal buffing, Eberron also has a feat called Song of the Heart which adds +1 to most of your bardic songs, though it can't be taken until Lv3.
And if you're in melee and aren't doing much damage, don't forget the Aid Another option! Also, don't neglect Fascinate, Countersong, and Inspire Competence -- while they won't be your main bardic music usages, they can come in handy at just the right moment.
It does look like your party could use something of an enchanter-type, so I would put some focus of your spells in there. Combine those with usage of Bluff and Diplomacy and you have a mind-manipulating machine. As for these early levels, Grease is also a nice spell with its versatile usage. And this doesn't really apply now, but bard gets some fun exclusive spells at later levels, such as Glibness (+30 bluff to lies is certainly nothing to scoff at), Modify Memory, and Improvisation (which I think is in CAdv now).
If you're concerned about he minimal buffing, Eberron also has a feat called Song of the Heart which adds +1 to most of your bardic songs, though it can't be taken until Lv3.
And if you're in melee and aren't doing much damage, don't forget the Aid Another option! Also, don't neglect Fascinate, Countersong, and Inspire Competence -- while they won't be your main bardic music usages, they can come in handy at just the right moment.
Journeyman
First Post
Thanee said:
I've never played a bard past level 11, so this may be an issue at higher levels. However, a bard gets Tasha's and Suggestion one level before a wizard, Confusion at the same level, and Hold Monster and Dominate Person one level after a wizard, with a save dc only one lower (assuming equivalent stats and feats).
The real problem with using a bard as an offensive caster is the number of spells per day they get. It's very easy to find yourself reduced to using your bow after only one or two fights, if you aren't careful.
It's certainly a good idea for a bard using enchantments to have the spell focus feats, though.
brehobit
Explorer
Scratched_back said:
OK, I don't know how high-level this low-level game is to go, but I'll throw out a few suggestions.
#1: Tank, Human Bard heading to paladin.
Take line A: Str 18 Int 9, Wis 11, Dex 11, Con 13, Chr 16. AL: NG. Take Devoted performer at 3rd level (I'd suggest power attack and mounted combat as your feats)
#2 Light fighter headed toward dread pirate.
Str 14 Int 15 Wis 4 Dex 16 Con 15 Chr 17. Take Force of personality (use CHR not WIS for will save!) and ????? as feats. If you can talk the DM into letting you take quick draw (for the dread pirate) as a first level feat grab that.
In all cases Inspirational Boost is a must-have 1st level spell. Even at once/day you've got to have it.
Both of these builds should do okay in combat. At least a few times a day...
dvvega
Explorer
I would suggest Bard/Swashbuckler.
Yes your bardic music won't come fast, however you will be a flamboyant fighter with access to Use Magic Device.
You will also be able to cast spells as well and help in social environemtns.
Although most have suggested Line B, I would go with Line C. That 4 will be a big penalty no matter where you put it. Suggestion here: S: 14, D: 14, C: 12, I: 13, W: 10, Ch: 16
You could go Elf and alternate your level gains (Bard then Swashbuckler then Bard then Swashbuckler) and so forth.
Take the Elvish Feat from Racs of the Wild (Elf Dilletante) and you will have every skill available to you with a +1 modifier. So when anything needs doing you can do it ... and very flamboyantly as well.
Take Perform (Weapon Display) so when you Buckle Your Swash you are inspiring others as well.
D
Yes your bardic music won't come fast, however you will be a flamboyant fighter with access to Use Magic Device.
You will also be able to cast spells as well and help in social environemtns.
Although most have suggested Line B, I would go with Line C. That 4 will be a big penalty no matter where you put it. Suggestion here: S: 14, D: 14, C: 12, I: 13, W: 10, Ch: 16
You could go Elf and alternate your level gains (Bard then Swashbuckler then Bard then Swashbuckler) and so forth.
Take the Elvish Feat from Racs of the Wild (Elf Dilletante) and you will have every skill available to you with a +1 modifier. So when anything needs doing you can do it ... and very flamboyantly as well.
Take Perform (Weapon Display) so when you Buckle Your Swash you are inspiring others as well.
D
Luthien Greyspear
First Post
irdeggman said:I do have trouble envisioning a true necromancy and a paladin in the same party though.
Actually, it's quite easy. Look at Kelemvor from the FR. He's a LN Death God who takes responsibility for the proper cycle of life and death, and is opposed to the unnatural state of undeath, as it interferes with the natural order. Paladins who fight undead would be happy to serve alongside one of his cleric/wizards...who could easily qualify for True Necromancer.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Luthien Greyspear said:
... excepting, of course, the fact that the True Necromancer focuses on the creation of undead ...
I say take the stats with the 4. Then put it into Wisdom, and take the Force of Personality feat from the Complete Adventurer that lets you use your Charisma bonus for Will saves.
Ta-dah... Great stats, and while you're not too perceptive, Listen and Sense Motive are class skills so you can make up for it if you have a good score in Intelligence. (and you can now have a +2 or +3 Int bonus if you want)
Ta-dah... Great stats, and while you're not too perceptive, Listen and Sense Motive are class skills so you can make up for it if you have a good score in Intelligence. (and you can now have a +2 or +3 Int bonus if you want)
RayneBlythewood9
First Post
The bard can't really be a tank, but he can be surprising.
I'd go with the 18 in charisma and use the inspire courage ability.
One of your first level spells could be inspirational boost out of the complete adventurer.
That will give all your companions and yourself a +2 to attack and to damage.
When you get higher spells there is a 2nd level spell out of complete arcane called Whirling Blade. It allows you to throw a melee weapon and you can use your charisma modifier instead of your strength. There is also a spell
Masters Touch out of the Complete Adventurer is another 1st level swift spell that allows you gain proficiency in a weapon of shield for 1 min per level.
Here's what you could do around 4th level of course, Sing (boost it,) Grab the dead bad guys weapon and Master's Touch it. giant greataxe or something... who knows. Then whirling Blade the thing for 60 ft.
Or you could do like I did with my bard and max use magic device out the wazoo.
I currently can cast up to 5th level scrolls even if I roll a one on my use magic device check. Of course our DM had house ruled that a 1 on the d20 is a -10.
But you could do lots of stuff with a bard. I did the diplomacy and use magic device.
When you get high enough you can take leadership to get a melee monster to help the group out and for you to buff.
Just have fun with him.
I'd go with the 18 in charisma and use the inspire courage ability.
One of your first level spells could be inspirational boost out of the complete adventurer.
That will give all your companions and yourself a +2 to attack and to damage.
When you get higher spells there is a 2nd level spell out of complete arcane called Whirling Blade. It allows you to throw a melee weapon and you can use your charisma modifier instead of your strength. There is also a spell
Masters Touch out of the Complete Adventurer is another 1st level swift spell that allows you gain proficiency in a weapon of shield for 1 min per level.
Here's what you could do around 4th level of course, Sing (boost it,) Grab the dead bad guys weapon and Master's Touch it. giant greataxe or something... who knows. Then whirling Blade the thing for 60 ft.
Or you could do like I did with my bard and max use magic device out the wazoo.
I currently can cast up to 5th level scrolls even if I roll a one on my use magic device check. Of course our DM had house ruled that a 1 on the d20 is a -10.
But you could do lots of stuff with a bard. I did the diplomacy and use magic device.
When you get high enough you can take leadership to get a melee monster to help the group out and for you to buff.
Just have fun with him.
Dragongrief
Explorer
The bard in the campaign I run is decent at combat, even when not counting the Inspiration ability. She is the group's sniper and secondary healer, and her singing through encounters normally results in 2-5 less misses each combat.
What I'd suggest with the stat options you have is:
- Take set A; you get 2 high scores (all that's really needed), and the 9 isn't bad.
- Put the 18 and 16 in Dexterity and Charisma. Your choice dependant on campaign style. Put the 9 in Wisdom, the clerics should have that taken care of. Put the 13 in Intelligence for extra skill points.
- Pick up the ranged attack feat chain.
- Go for human (for the feats and skills) or elf (for 18 cha and dex)
Stand back, inspire, and fire away.
What I'd suggest with the stat options you have is:
- Take set A; you get 2 high scores (all that's really needed), and the 9 isn't bad.
- Put the 18 and 16 in Dexterity and Charisma. Your choice dependant on campaign style. Put the 9 in Wisdom, the clerics should have that taken care of. Put the 13 in Intelligence for extra skill points.
- Pick up the ranged attack feat chain.
- Go for human (for the feats and skills) or elf (for 18 cha and dex)
Stand back, inspire, and fire away.
