help requested with Forge of Fury's big bad vs. a huge party (spoilers)

[Davelozzi]

Yes, boys and girls, it's time once again for the bi-monthly Forge of Fury thread.

This time around, we're talking about the big bad at the end of the module. Naturally, spoilers will abound so if you're planning to play this module and don't want anything given away, you better walk away now.
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Shoo, I said, Shoo!
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Okay, all the potential players gone now? Here we go. I've been running a modified Forge of Fury in my game, and my party is rather large, and of a higher than recommended level (mostly 7th). I have eight players in my party anyway, and because of the situation, they temporarily have seven dwarven "cohorts" accompanying them (mostly 4th level). This is because the party is helping the one dwarven PC (Durgeddin's grandson and namesake) reclaim his ancestral hold, and they've negotiated with his clan to have the support of the additional seven dwarves. They're not real cohorts as far as the rules are concerned, they're just around for this one adventure.

At any rate, either the next session or the one after, they should be going up against Nightscale (black dragon). I would like to make sure the battle is memorable and appropriately dangerous. I want the PCs to be in real danger, and though I'm not out to kill them, death should certainly be a possiblity. However, I'm hoping to avoid a situation in which anyone targeted by the dragon goes down in one round (though it's okay if some of the dwarven cohorts do).

Now ideally I would have switched the single dragon out for a mated pair, but it's too late for that. So now I'm in the unenviable position of trying to stat up a single dragon that can provide an appopriate challenge for all these characters without slaughtering them. The mini I have (Reaper's Deathsleet ) would be Huge in D&D terms, so I was thinking of going with a young adult aged dragon advanced to huge size, though I could always ignore the size of the mini and just give it large stats anyway.

I've never had a significant dragon encounter in my game before, so I'm hoping to make it memorable without using a bunch of minions, though I might have to. If I do need to, one option that would be easy to use is for me to bring in Nimira, the duergar leader that escaped from their last battle. I've bumped her up from Ftr5 to Ftr9 and added the voidmind creature template from MM3 (basically, she has a stunning slime cone attack and her hidden mind flayer master can manifest powers as a 9th level psion through her body). In the last battle her favored tactic was to remain in the shadows and while her hidden master used psionic dominate through her to turn the PCs against each other.

At any rate, if you're still with me, thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions, fire away. Here's a quick summary of the party and their most relevant weapons and tactics, in case it helps:

PCs:
Durgeddin, male dwarven barbarian4/dwarven paragon3 (from Unearthed Arcana), wields keen orcbane greataxe 2-handed
Lenia, female human Ftr7, wields dragonbane bastard sword 2-handed
Sir Ancelon, male human Ftr5/Pal2, wields flaming longsword with searing light 1/day, and carries a shield
Caelan, male human Ftr2/Clr5 (domains: Sun & Heal), wields +1 longsword and carries shield
Emeril, male human Wiz7 (evoker), favors Fireball, & Flaming Sphere (and can do cold versions of those fire spells too, and uses Lesser Globe of Invulnerability to protect himself and the psion).
Gavin, male human Rog7, usually uses ring of invisiblity to move in for Sneak Attack, wields +2 keen longsword
Oedon, male human Psion7 (telepath), usually uses domination to turn foes against each other (which won't work on the dragon) and augmented mind thrust on big bad guys.
...and a brand new PC (as yet named) male elven non-magical Rgr7 specializing in the longbow, with wolf companion.

cohorts:
Eberek, male dwarven Clr5 of Moradin (domains: Earth & Protection), wields warhammer and carries shield
Baerna & Dorna, 2 female dwarven Ftr4, both wield masterwork dwarven waraxes.
Brodwarn, Brimsar, Storngrist, & Sturlgrim, all male dwarven Ftr3 (but they may raise to 4th level before this battle)
All four of 'em have masterwork dwarven waraxes, and Sturlgrim also has a +2 halberd.

The dragon can use hit & run tactics from the cover of the dark lake that he lives in, as outlined in the module, though I've enlarged the lake and added a ledge around both sides of of it in order to accomodate the larger party.

 

[Sandain]

Is it time your party had a lesson in terrain and unconventional tactics?

Here are a few things that you may wish to consider.

1. The Dragon will not get into melee combat with such a large well armed group.

2. The dragon will not be surprised.

3. The dragon knows this cavern intimately, including the underwater part of it.

4. Acid desolves rock. The dragon may collapse part of the roof on the party.

5, The dragon moves very fast and may have feats such as fly by attack.

From memory there are only two ways into the lair. The stone bridge over the river, or the underwater tunnel leading out to the lake.

The dragon will know the group is coming and will wait until they are all bunched up on the bridge or coming down the path. 1st breath weapon should be quite devastating.

The dragon will then go underwater and remain there for some time - long enough for short term buffs to wear off the party. if anyone comes in the water she may do a nice true Strike full round attack action - or a snatch and grab and take them out into the lake to fight one on one.

Hope this helps

If the group stays in readied battle formation on the lege - melt the ledge out from underneath them. Watch the plate armored types drown.

 

[Stone Angel]

First You should beef up the dragon I don't have the module handy but I think he is a young adult. Maybe lower catagorey. Give him some magic items and customize his feats.

Redo the map use the water to his advantage, he should frustrate the pc's by laying in the water breathing, moving around then breathing again. Peppering them again and a again, allowing them to wear themselves out. Spring attack would work really well, he would also benefit from a Lion's Pounce spell.

You might even think about adding another monster or two there perhaps even half dragons could be brothers or sisters, or even offspring.

Do you have access to Draconomicon? Read the entry for black dragons and familiarize yourself with it.

Hope this helps

The Seraph of Earth and Stone

 

[DarrenGMiller]

What about templates?

DM

 

[Squire James]

One suggestion is to give the dragon lots of HP... doubling HP (or setting them to max, which is almost the same thing) will be like fighting 2 such dragons 1 at a time. So CR will increase by 2, but it will not be able to kill anyone any faster than it did originally. Since most of its power is at-will or spread over time, it should be able to put up a good fight for quite a while.

So, for your party, I would suggest a young adult black with 240 hp. His breath weapon would average 25 damage (if save fails), and his full attack should do around 48 - 2.4 x (AC -19) if directed at a single PC. Decent tactics with that many combatants should bring this boy down in 4 to 6 rounds, but you'll probably lose about half of the dwarves and/or 1-2 PC's.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Give your dragon class levels!

I don't have the module, but I'll assume he's a young adult black dragon since that's what he's been described as by other posters - a CR 9 encounter, allegedly, but since he's a dragon and they're traditionally undercosted, we'll assume he's really CR 10.

The PCs are 7th level and there are 7 of them. They represent at least a CR 12 encounter to the dragon - a significant advantage. They also have 7 dwarven cohorts, average 4, who, being dwarves, are close to being worth an extra CR over their levels. We'll call them CR 9, and the final encounter CR 14.

If the dragon were the party and the party the monsters, the dragon could expect a TPK from this encounter. Not a challenging boss.

Easy Encounter
Give the dragon four fighter levels - that nets him BAB +4, five feats, an average of 34 hit points and more saves. Bump his poor Con by 1 to get another 20 hit points. He ends up with 206 hp, which although not great, should let him survive a while longer.
Alleged CR 13, actually more like 12.

Medium Encounter
Give the dragon four nonassociated rogue levels and two associated barbarian levels - that nets him BAB +5, two feats, 2d6 sneak attack, lots of skills, rage, and an average of 67 hit points once his Con gets bumped. He ends up with 219 hit points and superior offensive capabilities.
Alleged CR 13, actually more like 14.

Tough Encounter
Give the dragon eight nonassociated sorcerer levels - that nets him BAB +4, two feats, two statistic increases, fourth-level sorcerer spells and an average of 60 hit points. He ends up with 212 hit points. Most importantly, he can use those extra spells to good effect.
Alleged CR 13, actually more like 15.

 

[jasper]

This is what I did to the party.
Coming down the ladder breath weapon . Causing a dex check if they failed their save. One was out of fighting due both breath and falling damage. One fled in fear.
Sunk or moved the treasure to different location leaving only half.
sub tactics. As some hit the bridge breath weapon and then run underwater to recover. A phyiscal attack when possible with no more than two in toe to toe range.
If possible grab one in mouth and dive to bottom of water. Umm water soaked adventurer. mmm squishy and good eats.
If necessary run away and use hit and run tactics as they retreat from the mountain. A midnight spit on night watch always is good for a chuckle.

 

[Davelozzi]

Okay, this is great.

To those that asked, Nightscale is young as published in the module, but I will definately be bumping him up a bit, most likely to young adult.

Sandain/jasper - melting the ladder/bidge/ledge out from under them -- good idea.

Stone Agnel - Draconomicon? -- check.

Moogle - class levels, huh? Good idea but I'd want to make him live longer without increasing his BAB much as he can already get 'em almost every time, even using substantial power attack. Which means...

Squire James - maxing the HP: excellent solution to the above problem. Thank you!

Great stuff everyone...anything else?

Otherwise, I'll be looking at all this stuff as I stat him up over the next few days, and will probably come back with more then.