Help! Trouble at the gaming table

[Queenie]

I need some help with issues that have arisen at our game table. We have a large group (8 people) and most of us try the best we can to make things flow smoothly for the DM. This issue has gotten out of hand, and any comments on how to solve things would be appreciated.

There is a CG thief in our party. This whole problem started with a conversation, which ended with her saying she never said she was anyone's friend.

After that, she tried to cause problems by stealing some magic items from a wizard, including his spellbook. She was accused, as she has admitted to spending time in jail because she is a thief. The spellbook was "found" in our cart, but the magic items disappeared. Out of game she admitted it was her, and when we almost caught her she threw the magic items to the side of the road so she wouldn't be caught.

All our characters are now watching her movements pretty cautiously. We encounter a group of goblins, but there is also a flying, invisible ogre mage who starts casting spells at us. My character, a sorcerer, is the only one who knows generally where he is (I have a psedo-dragon who can see invisibility). I cast a fireball at him, he casts a cone of cold back at me and drops me to -5. I am healed and kill him in the end.

I ask the thief not to touch him, as I feel I need to exact some revenge on this creature who almost killed me, and I killed him almost exclusively. Our ranger also managed to hit him a few times, and he also asks the thief to leave the ogre mage alone.

While we are watching, she continues her actions, she pilfers a ring from him, and lies about not finding anything. My character sees the whole thing. The Ranger thinks he saw her steal, but isn't sure. I feel that after being almost dead I am not in the mood currently to go at it with her, but I know now that she is stealing from our party and is a liar. (I should also mention that there isn't much treasure to be found in this adventure and so far she has managed to steal almost everything.)

Out of game, she is forced by our DM to switch alignments to chaotic neutral as she has not been playing a good aligned character.

At this point, my character has informed certain party members about the fact that the thief has stolen and lied to us. Our characters start making comments to her about not trusting her and being a thief and that we won't stand for her behavior.

In the next town we come to we hear about a dungeon we can check out. So the group decides to go, and the thief comes with us, but she disappears. We go down into the dungeon, and we wonder where she is and if she is trying to trap us down there.

Meanwhile, she IS trying to trap us down there, and telling the DM she hates us and wants to kill us because we don't like her. I should mention at this point that the DM is my husband, and he was extremely frustrated at the end of the session because even if she is kidding he has to take every note seriously. She sat at the table, bored because she wasn't directly involved in the action. The DM was getting pissed because she kept interrupting the action of the main group with notes asking what her character was doing.

This has become a HUGE in and out of game issue. There has been fighting and personals attacks thrown. I feel the person playing the thief is taking what is happening in game personally, although she denies it. I have tried to calm things down between us and she has responded with hostility. She has claimed that "the group" is making it impossible for her to play her character because we are constantly disrupting the game with our remarks. I should say that, so far, there has only been one night where anyone said anything to her.

Our group has no problem with her playing her character, but we feel she needs to be responsible for her actions. That includes dealing with the mistrust she has earned from our group.

There is much more to this story, and I'm willing to answer any questions I might have left open.. but I am wondering if there is any way to fix this problem? Anyone have any similar problems?

 

[Crothian]

Get rid of the character. If her character is causing people to not have fun, then it needs to be gotten rid of. And if she constantly does this stuff, I'd recomend getting rid oh the player (but nothing in your post makes me believe that). Don't try to change her character, allow her to become an NPC and a nemisis of the party.

 

[Wikidogre]

have the Dm force her into a situation where, she might need the parties help, in lew, making her realize that these people may need her help too. The player also has to realize that playing your character is great, but stealing from your companions is not the way to do it. Rogues are great assets to a party, she should be training that ability to pilfer on others, like nobles, rich merchants, and infitrating establishments in order to help the party and others, but keep a little side profiet for herself. That is the general CG alignment to me. hope this helps a little.


peace

*by the way i Kant spell today, plz forgive mistakes!

 

[Saint Brendan]

I have been in a group with a similiar sitituation: as young players with a young DM we took a light hearted approach to the genre, and for most in the group it was a first or second time playing. The player who was a rogue stole the only copy of a map to some important place because he was bored with not being able to pry it out of the hands of the ranger. Anyways, we figured out he took it, took back the map, kicked his character out of the group, and threatened to cut off his character's hands if he returned. It wasn't that the player was the problem, but his roleplaying was way too self centered and pointless.
convincing the player that she is wrong may work. That, or maybe the DM can have something shiny and magical be cursed or poisoned, so if it is touched it harms the weilder. even something nondeadly - such as turning her skin red may expose her character as a fraud.

 

[dren]

You have three choices:

1. talk to the person, say that her role playing is giving the entire group problems, and she has to change for the betterment of all

2. if they continue ask them to leave the game, either for a temporary break or a permanent one. This is not always easy or even possibile (friends, family, etc) but it has to be done

3. kill the character. DISCRETELY for god's sake, but do the dirty work. The DM has to do, what the DM has to do. That's why you get paid all of the imaginary money

This is a game and if I no longer have fun I pack my bags and leave. End of story, end of game, end of the bull****!

 

[Conaill]

This sounds mainly like an out-of-game problem, and therefore should be solved out-of-game.

I'd suggest you sit down with your players before the next session and talk things out. Make it clear to the player that this is a group game, and therefore each player has certain responsabilities towards making the game enjoyable for the entire group.

If she really wants to play a "loner" character, it's not fair to the rest of the players to spend an equal amount of time on her PC's exploits. If she wants to play a one-on-one game, she should try to find a DM that wants to run such a game for here. Otherwise, it is her responsability to play her character in such a way that it fits into the party. Sure, she can play a CN character, but not to the point that it detracts from the enjoyment of the game for the other players (including the DM!)

Alignment does not define a character. It is still up to the player to "direct" her PC within the bounds of her alignment. Likewise, I would say it is the other players' responsability not to play their PC's to a priori exclude another PC from the party. (Yes, it works both ways.)

Blaming the character ("But that's what my character would do!") is silly. It's the player's choice to run such a character.

 

[Conaill]

have the Dm force her into a situation where, she might need the parties help, in lew, making her realize that these people may need her help too.

Good suggestion. I know I just recommended dealing with this OOG, but I do think some mutual appreciation of each others characters seems to be missing here.

From a teamwork perspective, it sounds like the other players would rather not have this character in the party, and the trouble player probably feels her character is unappreciated and never gets to shine.

Once you get to the point where she's no longer actively working *against* the party, making her feel useful and wanted in the party should keep these problems from reoccuring.

 

[Cougar]

The thieving rogue has been a bane to most games I have been involved in. It seems like a cool concept and the rogue is just "acting naturally", but it is hard on the group as a whole.

Ask the player to play another PC. Make sure it isn't a rogue. If this continues on to the next PC, then I would say dump the player. An alternative to this is to have the DM let her know in no uncertain terms that he wants the party to work together and any character or player who can't handle it will have to leave.

Another way to keep the thieving problems down to a minimum are opposed spot and pick pocket (for sleight of hand). If she stays a rogue and keeps stealing, roll them spot checks. If you win, call her on it, in character. In character you (and your party) can force the rogue honest or drive the PC out of the group. This is harsh, but so is having your fun messed up!

 

[baradtgnome]

This rogue feels like she can do anything because it is role playing her character, however you feel limited in your actions because if you role played your response properly she would at the very least be chased out of the party, possibly after she was beaten and had your treasure restored. Perhaps worse. Would she feel that is fair and good role playing?

As a DM, my advise is for your DM/husband to either coach this player one-on-one or lead a group discussion on how a disruptive character (not player) ruins the game mechanics & fun. IMC I do NOT allow evil characters in the party. Just the way I play. This character is not neutral, she is evil. There were many good suggestions previous to this on how to role play it out to a conclusion, if the player wants a graceful exit for the character.

A little open discussion on the merits of team play in your style of game may open her eyes. If not at least it will assuage your guilt when you kick her out.

Ultimately, this player may be a fine RPGer and a nice person, but if they don't wish to play the style of game that the rest of you desire, perhaps it would be best to wish her well in finding a group that better fits her gaming style/needs.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

Read Wulf's story hour -- paying special attention to what Wulf calls "the Peck" -- the halfling rogue in the party that caused a lot of trouble for the party.

As a player, I'd say, handle it in character. Get a hold of the thief, strip her, and then kick her to the curb. She'll come back for revenge, and then you can kill her with a clear conscience.

As a DM, I'd be making sure that anything that might threaten the lone rogue is a very credible threat -- drive that rogue back into the fold where the community can deal with her.

But I think that's treating the symptom, not the disease.

Ultimately, what sets role playing games apart from most other game types is that everyone at the table (even the DM, although DMs hide it as best thay can) is working towards the same ultimate goal, and they're doing it as a community. Players that cry "I'm just roleplaying my character" don't get the community thing, and are ultimately just clamoring for more personal attention -- as the persistent interrupting notes would attest to.

RPGs are about teamwork, community, about the whole being greater than it's parts. This player doesn't seem to get that. Part of the problem may be the size of the group -- this player might get the attention she needs in a smaller group, and be able to be a good party citizen. But she'll still demand more than her fair share of the attention, and make trouble if she doesn't get it.

You could consider talking to her outside of the game -- push her to talk about what's really bothering her. Maybe she's pissed off about something someone said three sessions ago and hasn't gotten over it, and just needs to get it off her chest. Maybe she's acting out because she needs someone to listen to her for a few minutes, and she'll get back in the spirit of things if someone does.

I wouldn't bet any money on this ending well for you. It clearly will continue to escalate until she forces you to do something about it, making you the bag guys and her the victim. If you kill her character, her next one will probably come in wanting revenge. You have to try, probably, but in the end I imagine she'll end up leaving the group, and it may be for the best.

But then, I'm a bitter old gnome. I don't have much faith in people changing behaviors, or learning from experience.

Not that any of this helps. You need to do your best, not because anyone expects it to work, but because it's the right thing to do. And then, when it's over, it'll either work or it won't, but if it doesn't, you will at least have done everything you could to make it work.

-rg