Help with a Church design...

[Silvanos]

Well a player threw me this week, and decided that he wanted to play a Cleric of a War God... Up to this point I have not really detailed the Church... And I am at a loss on how to set this one up. These Clerics are all over the world, in different nations, fighting each other on the battlefield, etc. How can I set up the church? Should each nation have their own set up?

Here is the god:
Symbol: A Halberd splitting a sword in two pieces
Names: Maiden of Battle, Lady War
AL: N
Followers AL: LN, NG, N, NE, CN
Portfolio: War, Battle, and Conflict
Domains: Destruction, Strength, War, Protection
Favored Weapon: “Unlanor’s Wraith” (Halberd)
Churches: Widespread in conflict driven nations.

From the very beginning, Unlanor watched her fellow gods fight and make war with each other. Instead of stopping the wars, or siding with any one faction, she comes to see the truth of war. Only blood can make the ink to sign a pact of peace. Each faction must make a sacrifice before any real peace can ever reign.
Always aloof of any moral dilemma over choosing sides, Unlanor sees war as the great equalizer. Not one faction or race can ever overwhelm another; there is always someone willing to take up arms for war. Unlanor only involves herself directly in a battle if there is a clear sign that one side will cause irreparable damage to the overall balance of Kestaal.
Most followers seek her blessing before going into battle to ensure that the other side doesn’t have too much of an advantage.


Ideas?

Thanks!

 

[Shallown]

I did my "war" god as one of conflict, mainly then contest as well. So he is the gGod of war, skirmishes, duels as well as negotaiting, barter and such. He is not so concerned with who's side is winning as much as the actual conflict itself. this way the different countries can all have unique versions of the same God all claiming that He supports them. Which he does but he supports the conflict not the actual participants.

Just an idea

Later

 

[jerichothebard]

Are you sure that Neutral is the correct alignment for her? I was thinking Chaotic Neutral... if she doesn't have a clear side that she favors, it leads me to believe that she is more interested in the conflict than the reasons. Which smacks of a chaotic nature, to me.

At any rate, I think her followers should be restricted from being lawful.

jtb

 

[JimAde]

I disagree. The idealized medieval knight or samurai was very lawful, but studied war intensely.

Some random thoughts:

I think this church would hold itself neutral in most conflicts (as their goddess does) but perhaps have mercenary companies associated with it. The companies would provide revenue for the church as well as training for priests and others. In fact, the whole church could use military ranking and organization, with a "General" or "Marshal" in charge of the whole thing, and "colonels" under her, etc. On the other hand, the church could be widespread but with limited central authority. Local and regional "generals" would have hierarchies under them, but not report to any central authority. That way you could have different "Armies of Unlanor" with different guiding alignments and philosphies, duking it out on the battlefield. Cool.

I think higher-ups in the church would all be veterans of organized combat, regardless of their actual character class.

 

[Silvanos]

Are you sure that Neutral is the correct alignment for her? I was thinking Chaotic Neutral... if she doesn't have a clear side that she favors, it leads me to believe that she is more interested in the conflict than the reasons. Which smacks of a chaotic nature, to me.

At any rate, I think her followers should be restricted from being lawful.

jtb

Well... I have her as being concerned for the conflict, and the balance of power.

Hence the "Unlanor sees war as the great equalizer. Not one faction or race can ever overwhelm another; there is always someone willing to take up arms for war. Unlanor only involves herself directly in a battle if there is a clear sign that one side will cause irreparable damage to the overall balance of Kestaal."

With that in mind, I was thinking that each nation could have a "Church" that is supporting the government's bid for power... So some could be Chaotic, and some lawful, depending on the nation...

Make sense?

D

 

[Silvanos]

I disagree. The idealized medieval knight or samurai was very lawful, but studied war intensely.

Some random thoughts:

I think this church would hold itself neutral in most conflicts (as their goddess does) but perhaps have mercenary companies associated with it. The companies would provide revenue for the church as well as training for priests and others. In fact, the whole church could use military ranking and organization, with a "General" or "Marshal" in charge of the whole thing, and "colonels" under her, etc. On the other hand, the church could be widespread but with limited central authority. Local and regional "generals" would have hierarchies under them, but not report to any central authority. That way you could have different "Armies of Unlanor" with different guiding alignments and philosphies, duking it out on the battlefield. Cool.

Ohh I like that. So maybe seperated from the government, and supporting a more philosphical view... Governments never know when a "General" is going to show up on their side with 10,000 fanitical supporters of the cause... Or aginst them...

How would you see an adventuring cleric fitting into this loose, non centralized (At least as a whole) religion? Could they be drawn into an "Army" that they did not support? Or even declared an outlaw by an opposeing Priest's army? That could make for some intresting RP...

D

 

[irdeggman]

Here is something from the Birthright setting (via the BRCS-playtest at Birthright.net)

Cuiraécen
Lesser God
Stormlord, God of Battle, Haelyn’s Champion
Aliases: Cuiraécen (Anuire), Kirche (Brechtür), Khirdai (Khinasi), Kirken (Rjurik)
Symbol: Lightning bolt crossed by a sword
Alignment: CG
Portfolio: Storms, conflict, battle
Domains: Chaos, Good, Strength, Storm, War
Favored Weapon: Longsword or lightning (shortspear)

Cuiraécen (koo-RAY-eh-KEN) is the son of Haelyn and Nesirie. The god of battle is the patron of young warriors, for he is the representation of reckless courage and victory through strength. His father's name is invoked for discipline, bravery, and victory through organization, duty, and proper conduct; Cuiraécen's name is invoked for strength of arms, fearlessness, and personal glory. Cuiraécen has a stormy temper and can be both vain and rash. As the Stormlord, he heralds his presence with storm clouds, lightning, and thunder. Apocrypha suggests that Cuiraécen is romantically linked with both Laerme and Eloéle.

The church of Cuiraécen is loosely organized, each individual temple is arranged differently and no overall church hierarchy exists. Cuiraécen was born in the third century after Deismaar, and by the beginning of the fourth century, he had inspired orders of knighthood within the church of Haelyn. The first church of Cuiraécen was created in the sixth century in the hills overlooking the Spiderfell, in the Anuirean province of Rhumannen, Gheiste (now Ghoere). Since time, his shrines have spread across Cerilia. The worship of Cuiraécen is a warrior's faith. It appeals to soldiers, knights, guardsmen, militant priests, and other such professions. Farmers might invoke the name of Cuiraécen only to beg to be spared the ravages of a brewing storm, but Cuiraécen does not provide them with spiritual guidance in their daily lives. Several orders of knighthood are allied with the church of Cuiraécen.

The priests and followers of Cuiraécen spend much of their time engaged in martial pursuits, for such is considered worship to Cuiraécen. They perfect their own combat and tactical abilities and teach others such skills. The clergy of Cuiraécen celebrate two of the same major holidays as do the priests of Haelyn: Haelyn's Festival and Godsday (the 22nd of Deismir). In addition, followers celebrate the first day of spring (the Day of Rebirth) as the beginning of the storm season. They conduct a minor celebration six weeks later, on the 16th of Talienir, which they observe as the beginning of the campaign season. The principal ceremonies of worship are held in the early afternoon, at which time Cuiraécen's priests receive their spells. Cuiraécen's clergy commonly multiclass as fighters. His paladins must be Chaotic Good, and can multiclass as fighters without restriction to their ability to advance further as paladins.

Dogma: Cuiraécen fights without fear. Through strength of arm and unflagging courage inspire lesser men to conquer their fears and thus lead them to victory. Success in battle is the truest test of worth. Enter the fray when ere you can, but most assuredly in the defense of those who no one else can or will defend. Never refuse just battle. Act quickly and decisively; indecision is a sure path to ruin.

Allies: We serve our father, Haelyn, as champion and herald. We obey our father in most things, yet he values duty over honor. We must act, even against his wishes, when his inflexibility would deny us rightful victory. Our mother, Nesirie, requires our defense. Her compassion makes her an easy target for her enemies. We will protect her from harm – even if she does not thank us for the deed


There are different temples that cross various 'countries' and each interprets the doctrine differently. The Book of Priestcraft (from 2nd ed Birthright) detailed some of the differences between the temples (or sects if you will) mostly along the lines of proficiencies they commonly have.

I hope that gives you some ideas. There is difference between gods of war. In Birthright Haelyn was the god of 'noble war' and leadership, while his son Cuiraécen was the god of war and battle (and also storms). The father was lawful while the son was chaotic.

 

[iwatt]

You should have this church as responsible from stopping nations from bringing destabilizing technologies into combat. In DnD that means Magic. A company of mid level Clerics ready to saly any mage even thinking into bringing magic into larga scale combat would be a good deterrent.

Think of the Church of Unlanor as the ultimate Enforcers of a Magic non-proliferation agreement.

 

[irdeggman]

Now here are 2 other choices from Birthright that might give you ideas:

Belinik
Intermediate God
Prince of Terror, Lord of Strife
Aliases: Belinik (Anuire, Khinasi, Rjurik, Vosgaard), Alenecht (Brechtür)
Symbol: Crossed axes
Alignment: CE
Portfolio: Battle, feuds, fear
Domains: Chaos, Evil, Strength, Terror, War
Favored Weapon: "Fury" (greataxe)

Belinik (bell-in-ICK) is the god of war, strife, competition and hatred. Prior to ascension, he was the most powerful of the Vos war chiefs that followed Azrai's banner. He now claims the title of patron god of the Vos and inspires Vos warriors to be savage in their attacks, merciless in their conquests, and fearless in their defeats. Contention is his companion, for in contention the weak are slain and the strong rewarded. Belinik is believed to destroy the herds of any Vos tribe that grows too soft, leaving them with no choice but to raid their enemies in order to survive. Belinik is a dark god, and fosters unceasing contention through hate, anger, and jealously among his faithful.

Belinik’s clerics are predominately male and claim spiritual sovereignty over all Vos. In addition to the Vos, Belinik's worshippers include any willing to use murder, torture, and other horrid deeds as a means to an end: the control of others through strength and fear. Belinik's church has unquestioned power among the Vos. His priests do not work alongside others in their community to help it prosper; they plan attacks on their neighbors to take what they have, raiding for slaves, livestock, and booty. Belinik's clergy foment dissention among warriors of Vos tribes, for such conflict inevitably leads to violence and guarantees that the strongest rules. Priests of Belinik test their battle skills constantly, usually against far inferior opponents, and almost always to the death. In order to advance in the church hierarchy, a priest of Belinik need simply arrange the death of his superior and claim his rank; priests that are not feared by their subordinates are soon pulled down.

The hour of dawn is holy to Belinik, for it is at dawn that most battles take place. On the Eve of the Dead, the temples of Belinik enact dark ceremonies designed to bring them to states of psychological madness. The most important ceremonies are those performed to bring the favor of Belinik in battle. Immediately prior to battle, priests of Belinik will ritually slay a kidnapped enemy warrior by cutting out his heart and devouring it. If such a victim is unavailable, the priest will attempt to cut out the heart of the first foe that they face. This ritual is considered to be one of the most sacred to Belinik, and among some tribes each warrior will attempt to do this, regardless of the personal danger. Belinik's clergy commonly multiclass as fighters.

Dogma: Terror is power. Power is for the strong. The weak hide behind paper agreements, seeking compromise over victory. The strong dictate everything and compromise nothing. Destroy or be destroyed; win or die; conquer or perish. Trust no one. Loyalty cannot be earned; it can only be coerced through fear. Answer every insult with blood; when you lose face, you lose power. Any who oppose you must be utterly destroyed; with each demonstration of your mastery you bind more tightly those beneath you.

Haelyn
Greater God
Lawmaker, Lord of Noble War
Aliases: Haelyn (Anuire, Brechtür, Vosgaard), Halaïa (Khinasi), Holn (Rjurik)
Symbol: Silver sword over a golden sunburst
Alignment: LG
Portfolio: Courage, justice, chivalry, rulership, war
Domains: Good, Justice, Law, Nobility, War
Favored Weapon: Greatsword or bastard sword

Haelyn (HAY-lynn) is the lord of justice and chivalry, and patron of the Anuirean people. He is the paragon of kings and paladins, and is worshiped throughout Cerilia by those seeking order through law. In his role as lord of justice, Haelyn is stern, but tempers his judgments with mercy. He represents the rule of law as the means by which a society is run. Prior to his ascension, Haelyn was the high paladin of Anduiras and the chosen commander of the forces gathered against Azrai.

The church of Haelyn is considered the most powerful church in Cerilia and its teachings have spread to every human-dominated region. In the fifteen centuries since Deismaar, the church has split in several different schisms. Each of the sects differs slightly in their beliefs and activities, but all provide spiritual guidance for the people who look to them for inspiration. At every temple, priests conduct morning ceremonies that praise the glory of Haelyn and call for his divine wisdom in the day to come. Superstition holds that if a morning ever comes that the bells of Haelyn's churches are silent, then the day will be without dawn and the world's descent into shadow will begin. All clergy, regardless of rank, spend an hour of each day in labor for the good of the community.

Priests of Haelyn pray for their spells at dawn. The most important ceremony of the year is Haelyn's Festival, which occurs on the day of the summer solstice. The night of the summer solstice, called the Night of Fire because of the shower of falling stars that occurs each year, is the culmination of the festival. Worshippers of Haelyn refer to the 22nd of Deismir as Godsday (also the Day of Ascent) and commemorate the battle of Deismaar and Haelyn's ascension. Haelyn's gospel, the Book of Laws, appeared in the first temple of Haelyn on the 6th of Pasiphiel the following year, where it remains to this day. The church of Haelyn now celebrates that day as the Day of Holy Justice. Other holidays vary from temple to temple. Haeyln's clerics commonly multiclass as paladins; they are not subject to normal advancement restriction on their ability to advance as cleric/paladins.

Dogma: See justice done, with both compassion and zeal. It is the duty of the strong to protect the weak and uphold the sacred feudal social order. Make war when justice demands it, but never for an unjust reason. Study warfare and serve in the armies that oppose evil and injustice. To rule or judge is not a privilege, it is a most holy responsibility and the heaviest of burdens, for your acts touch the lives of your subjects. Should lordship fall to you, work diligently to see that you rule fairly and justly. Stand by your oaths to your liege, your subjects, and your neighbors; the word of a ruler is the coin by which nation's earn peace.

Allies: Our wife, Nesirie, is our surest ally. We are her shields and we shall allow no harm to befall her. Our son, Cuiraécen, is poised on the edge of a sword, between glory and duty. We must strive to guide him towards just and well-considered action that faithfully discharges his duty rather than rash forays in the pursuit of personal glory.

 

[Silvanos]

You should have this church as responsible from stopping nations from bringing destabilizing technologies into combat. In DnD that means Magic. A company of mid level Clerics ready to saly any mage even thinking into bringing magic into larga scale combat would be a good deterrent.

Think of the Church of Unlanor as the ultimate Enforcers of a Magic non-proliferation agreement.

Great Idea. That as well as supressing gunpowder, and such weapons...

Good point on the God's of War can be different. I see her as being concerned with the Balance of power, (N) and really seeing War as the way that balance is maintained... Part of her history has her standing by while her siblings (Other gods) ravage the surface of the planet with their Divine armies. (This is before the races were created, and the Planet is the Mother Goddess, Kestaal. Druids and such) Once the war was over, she always regretted not getting involved... And the War between her brothers and sisters was a stalemate... So she sees war as a maintainer... People fight for a cause, and it rarely makes a difference...

Does that make since?