Help with a problem player

[Turbert the Gnome]

Ok, so here is my group's situation. We just recently switched to 4th Edition from 3.5. The group consists of myself, my two brothers, and a friend. Everyone picked up on the switch to 4E better than I expected. Our party consists of 2 Human Barbarians, a Tiefling Sorceress, and a Shardmind Psion/Wizard. The problem lies with the tiefling. The player has only a few gaming sessions worth of experience. However, they think they know everything there is to know about D&D. On top of that, this person makes the most rediculous characters. For example: a Goliath Paladin who took on the role of the protective mother type, which was also deathly afraid of the undead and would literally run from them. Their most recent character is the Tiefling Sorcoress, who trash talks the Barbarians for charging into combat and "using the same power over and over." The characters were only level 2 at that point, how many more powers could we use at such a low level. Aside from that, they shuffle through books and doodle on the sides of their character sheet and various other things while the other players are acting in combat. The only time this person really gets involved is to trash talk another player for a decision they make or to give their opinion as to where we should explore next or even to threaten another character. This Tiefling Sorceress actually threatened my brother's Barbarian with melee combat. The mentality this person seems to have is that they are the "group leader" and no matter what they decide we should do, the rest of the party is supposed to just go along with it.

I have had players similiar to this in the past, we had one player that always thought that his character was the best in the group at everything we did. He was playing a Half-Elf Ranger with the same mentality as always. One gaming session due to a series of events, my Human Fighter and his Ranger had to face off. If he hadn't been able to outrun my character, his would've died right then and there. From that point on, this player never had that mentality again. My current problem player though, I don't think they would respond to that situation the same way. I honestly believe that they would reroll another character just to try to outdo everyone else again.

I would really like to handle this in a way that would not affect friendships. Not to mention having a fourth player instead of just three is quite nice. Does anyone have any possible solutions???

 

[fba827]

The bottom line here (and most social situations) is, you have to talk to the person, just a matter of deciding what tact to take ...

When you have a moment to the side, not necessarily in front of everyone...
"Hey, your character is getting a little too controlling and it's starting to get disruptive. Could we tone down the amount you act out that part of your character's personality?"

(aka, keep the focus on the ways the character -not the player- is disruptive... since that seems to be your intent. sure, it is the player acting out, but focusing on how it's the character keeps it from getting as personal. If he keeps doing it, just remind him later if he could tone it down like you talked about before. if it keeps happening after a couple warnings then just say something like 'we can't keep this character if it's going to keep being like this since it's getting too disruptive...' and so on. either he'll slowly shift the character's personality, or the pc will get changed (at which point you may need to restart this whole process, after which you'll have to point out that it's the same problem as before so that he realizes what he's doign), or the player will leave...)

 

[Troll Slayer]

A paladin who's terrified of the Undead sounds like a great character IF it is played right. A sorceress who taunts the barbarian for being a big aggressive brute is ALSO a great character idea; again IF it is played right.

Take the player aside and say you appreciate him coming up with characters that are different from the DnD cliches; however that doesn't mean playing them should disrupt the fun of the other players.

I had a rogue once who started as a spoiled rich kid and not the skulky trap finding killer assassin that your typical rogue can be. He constantly caused trouble for the party by opening his mouth. The clincher was that each player new what sort of character he was and was ready to roleplay him with me. His transition from spoiled rich brat to talented and feared duelist was a great story that my entire group was invested in.

 

[Oryan77]

For some reason, I get the feeling that this is a phony complaint. Things just don't seem to add up to me, which makes me wonder if you're making this stuff up. But if not, then I apologize for being wrong. I'll try to give some advice anyway.

The player has only a few gaming sessions worth of experience. However, they think they know everything there is to know about D&D. On top of that, this person makes the most rediculous characters.

If this player only has a few gaming sessions worth of experience, how has he already made "the most ridiculous characters" (as in more than just one)? Is he really burning through that many characters?

If that's for real, then that could be a problem right there. He needs to stick to a single character and then he might appreciate the character more and be less annoying with it.

For example: a Goliath Paladin who took on the role of the protective mother type, which was also deathly afraid of the undead and would literally run from them.

What's wrong with that? It could provide for some pretty fun roleplaying for the rest of the group. If there's only a few undead encounters every so often, then who cares. But if undead is a frequent enemy, then yeah, he should probably "get cured" of this phobia or play a different character so it's not being an ongoing disruption for the party. If I hire a guy to kill rats, and he's afraid of rats and runs from them, I don't need him around. Same with this PC. The party member will see him as a useless crutch.

Their most recent character is the Tiefling Sorcoress, who trash talks the Barbarians for charging into combat and "using the same power over and over." The characters were only level 2 at that point, how many more powers could we use at such a low level.

Sounds like roleplaying a "Tiefling" to me. What's wrong with that? Rather than complain out of game, why don't the characters deal with the jerk in game? I've known lots of people in real life that were real jerks. And when they are being a jerk, I do something about it. Why can't the PCs be doing the same thing? Join in with the roleplaying, it could be fun. Maybe your roleplaying reaction will show the Tiefling that he's being a jerk. The Tiefling might stop acting like that towards his allies in hopes that he doesn't get kicked out of the group (I'm talking about the character, not the player).

This Tiefling Sorceress actually threatened my brother's Barbarian with melee combat.

So why didn't the Barbarian mop the floor with her? Sounds kind of odd that a barbarian is going to back down from a fight; especially from a sorceress. I don't like party conflict either, but when I'm roleplaying my characters, I'm roleplaying the same towards PCs as I would the NPCs. If you keep the problems in-game, then you might not need to complain about it out of game.

my Human Fighter and his Ranger had to face off. If he hadn't been able to outrun my character, his would've died right then and there. From that point on, this player never had that mentality again.

So why are you guys not roleplaying this stuff out to settle these disputes like you did before? You don't know what the player will do until you've challenged him. And if all he does is keep making PCs that cause inter party conflict, then just tell the player to knock it off cause it's getting old, or kick him out of the group.

If he's a good friend, he'll just knock it off and you won't have to kick him out of the group. If he's not a good friend and won't stop it, then it's good to know and he should be kicked out. There is absolutely no reason a player should cause other players grief during the game. I have no patience for this sort of thing because I'll dealt with way too many problem players that ruin my fun & the groups fun just because their selfish players. Trust me, the game is so much better when you have a group of nothing but good players. Even only having 3 players is better than having 3 good players and 1 jerk. And sooner or later, you guys can find a new player to take the 4th spot if you really needed to.

 

[Thasmodious]

Without more information, it's hard to say what would be the best tactic. If the group dynamic is more a straight forward, action oriented game where RP is minimal, this could be a player crying out for some good roleplaying and trying to engage the group in that manner.

Does this player call out the other PCs in character/in game or is it the player saying "why do you always use x power?"

Point is, it's important to look at the whole group and see if maybe this player's needs aren't being met. I agree that talking with the player is the most straightforward manner of dealing with the problem, but do it in an open way, where the player could explain why he acts the way he does, rather than a dressing down - "conform or else". There are probably reasons for his acting out, unless he is just an obnoxious guy in general.

 

[Sunseeker]

Personally I think the goliath-paladin with the undead phobia and motherly instincts is amazingly hilarious. And I applaud the person for creating something unique, instead of your typical righteous crusader type.

A trash-talking tiefling sorcerer is hardly a surprise either. Sorcerers commonly think less of others and tieflings only make that issue worse. So sure, they could trash talk, they should only trash talk IN CHARACTER, not as the players themselves. And in-character trash talking is FUN, amazingly fun, and often very in-character.

Flipping through the books and doodling is an issue if: the person is just flipping through the books for kicks, and both are distracting them from the game. If they are able to play just fine even while legitimately looking things up and the doodling is not causing their play to suffer, then who cares? My GF draws whole works of art while at sessions and she still RPs and rolls the dice just fine.

That said, talking to them is the most obvious answer. When you get an alone moment, talk to them about what you feel is becoming a problem, and as them to tone it down. If they refuse, threaten to boot, if they call your bluff, boot them.

But I have to assume this person is the "friend". Because unless your brother's live elsewhere, booting them from the game is really not an option.

 

[purgatorybound]

I am one of the "brothers" in this party, and I just wanted to say thanks for everyone's advice. I have the most D&D experience out of the group, and have been playing for about 4 years. Most ofthe parties I have been involved in are the "Kick in the door" type. I guess I didn't really give much thought to the fact that maybe our friend would liek a more genuine RP experience. After you guys bvringing this to our attention, I have reflected on the things being done. I don't even think talking is necessary. I fully agree with letting PC problems be dealt with by PCs and NPC problems be dealt with by NPCs. The only thing That I think should be mentioned is the fact that the player criticizes the other party members actions and doesn't pay attention during other characters actions. As a player its offends me, but my character doesn't mind... hell his INT is 8 (thats right... I am the Barbarian brother LoL) I always tend to watch other players actions hoping to either learn from them, or at least plan my next character action around them.

 

[Sunseeker]

The only thing That I think should be mentioned is the fact that the player criticizes the other party members actions and doesn't pay attention during other characters actions. As a player its offends me, but my character doesn't mind... hell his INT is 8 (thats right... I am the Barbarian brother LoL) I always tend to watch other players actions hoping to either learn from them, or at least plan my next character action around them.

If they're criticizing in-character, then criticize in-character back. If the sorcerer uses a fireball on a fireball-immune creature then laugh at their character for not noticing this fact. Don't be too harsh as people who dish it usually can't take it. But do it just right and you'll get them to pay more attention to avoid being criticized themselves.

 

[purgatorybound]

So why didn't the Barbarian mop the floor with her? Sounds kind of odd that a barbarian is going to back down from a fight; especially from a sorceress. I don't like party conflict either, but when I'm roleplaying my characters, I'm roleplaying the same towards PCs as I would the NPCs. If you keep the problems in-game, then you might not need to complain about it out of game.

I agree 100% with you about not liking party conflict. Thats the reason I tried to ignore the challenge, but I think maybe I will accept if the need arises agian. My character is fully aware of killing the Sorc, but I just don't want any hard feelings between the player and myself. What do you reccomend I do if a conflict among the characters actually breaks out? I know for a fact that one of the other characters will join the brutality because its a part of our character personalities... They are brothers and ALWAYS aid each other, no matter what the situation is. I know that under normal circumstances that 2 barbarians can defeat a sorc. at such a low level, but its not about coming out victorious to me as a player...

 

[Sunseeker]

I agree 100% with you about not liking party conflict. Thats the reason I tried to ignore the challenge, but I think maybe I will accept if the need arises agian. My character is fully aware of killing the Sorc, but I just don't want any hard feelings between the player and myself. What do you reccomend I do if a conflict among the characters actually breaks out? I know for a fact that one of the other characters will join the brutality because its a part of our character personalities... They are brothers and ALWAYS aid each other, no matter what the situation is. I know that under normal circumstances that 2 barbarians can defeat a sorc. at such a low level, but its not about coming out victorious to me as a player...

On your "killing blow" you can always choose to do non-lethal damage and knock them out instead of killing them. If the other character wants to join in, tell him to stay out due to honor or something.