Help with custom domains

[StickPerson]

Hello All,

I've been lurking off and on for a couple months, mainly to keep up with the latest rumors on 4E, and I really like the community here, lots of smart creative people. So greetings!

Anyway, I'm DM'ing a 3.5 campaign, it’s kind of a classic dungeon crawl/uncover the mystery type adventure. I'm attempting to inject some elements of horror from Heroes of Horror and also trying to give it a bit of creepy Cthulhu feel... ancient elder gods and the like beyond the planes of existence type thing.

So one of my players wants to dip a level or two of cloistered cleric to get in touch with the dark side a bit. I'd like him to take the dream and madness domains, since those themes play well into the adventure. My player came up with his own take on the granted abilities. I really like his ideas as they are very evocative and flavorful, but would like some feedback and suggestions on whether or not they seem balanced.

Anyway, here they are:

Dream Domain:
WakingTrance:
The caster is able to enter into a lucid trance, and gain deep understanding and knowledge through passage into this state. The trance can be taxing on the user and generally should be used sparingly, but great insight can be gained through its use. Essentially, you may take 1d6 nonlethal damage to use your Concentration roll in place of your normal roll for a Bardic Knowledge/Lore check. For every additional 1d6 nonlethal damage you take, you may gain a +1 bonus to your roll. While in this state, you are considered dazed.

At the DM’s option, visions may be forced on the character through this power, granting limited prophetic ability. The visions can be of objects, events, places or people...in the past, present, or future. They are rarely ever detailed or direct when they come on.

The visions tend to be stronger, more detailed, and more specific based on the character’s proximity to the source and the intensity of the connection (generally based on location, time from/until event, degree of trauma, and degree of connection to the character/character’s goals).

These forced visions do not inflict nonlethal damage, but they do daze the character for the duration of the vision. The character may try to focus on these visions to pick additional info or gain greater clarity with a successful Bardic Knowledge/Lore check.

Madness Domain:
DarkWhispers:
The caster hears voices and they guide his actions, providing him with some benefits, but also a measure of distraction and paranoia as the voices aren’t always in agreement. The character gains a +4 on all saves against mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). Consequently, this power imposes a -2 modifier on all wisdom-based skills. The power can be subdued with a successful concentration roll, DC 15 + the caster level.


Any input anyone can give will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Nifft]

Hi, and welcome to EN World.

Dream Domain:
WakingTrance:
The caster is able to enter into a lucid trance, and gain deep understanding and knowledge through passage into this state. The trance can be taxing on the user and generally should be used sparingly, but great insight can be gained through its use. Essentially, you may take 1d6 nonlethal damage to use your Concentration roll in place of your normal roll for a Bardic Knowledge/Lore check. For every additional 1d6 nonlethal damage you take, you may gain a +1 bonus to your roll. While in this state, you are considered dazed.

Okay, a few things:
1/ Clerics don't have a normal roll for Bardic Knowledge / Lore.
2/ No duration, so how long would he be Dazed?
3/ There are a lot of ways to prevent nonlethal damage -- it's a bad mechanic for balancing a non-combat ability.

Consider instead:

Prophetic Dream -- Each night, you may make one special Bardic Lore check, adding your Cleric level to your Bard level (if any). At the DM’s option, visions may be forced on the character through this power, granting limited prophetic ability. The visions can be of objects, events, places or people...in the past, present, or future. They are rarely ever detailed or direct when they come on.

Madness Domain:
DarkWhispers:
The caster hears voices and they guide his actions, providing him with some benefits, but also a measure of distraction and paranoia as the voices aren’t always in agreement. The character gains a +4 on all saves against mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). Consequently, this power imposes a -2 modifier on all wisdom-based skills. The power can be subdued with a successful concentration roll, DC 15 + the caster level.

The Madness domain has always been problematic, since a genuinely insane PC wouldn't be particularly fun (or useful).

Perhaps something that allowed the PC to act normally despite [Compulsion] effects for 1 round per Cleric level? Similar to the Travel Domain power.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Aestolia]

Madness Domain:
DarkWhispers:
The caster hears voices and they guide his actions, providing him with some benefits, but also a measure of distraction and paranoia as the voices aren’t always in agreement. The character gains a +4 on all saves against mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). Consequently, this power imposes a -2 modifier on all wisdom-based skills. The power can be subdued with a successful concentration roll, DC 15 + the caster level.

+4 is a lot imo.
Given that this is madness, (s)he's hearing voices, and it's CoCish, I'd actually be more inclined to say that they get a penalty to Wis saves, after all, are they going to notice one more voice telling them to do something?

i'd propose giving it a -2 Wis save, but +2 on Reflex and +4 Ini, Due to paranoia, and one or more voices being slightly prophetic.

Balance wise this shifts 2 save points (no net gain) and give the equivilent benefit of a feat (imp ini).

For balancing a domain i generally ask myself - is the benefit roughly equal to a feat? If you look over most domains, the granted abilities are comprable to feats in terms of power.

 

[StickPerson]

Thanks for the advice Nifft & Aestolia. I do like the thematic elements behind both of my player’s ideas for his granted domain abilities, but felt they didn't really balance out mechanically. You both pointed out some of the same misgivings I was having.

As to the Prophetic Dream, I'm leaning towards your suggestions Nifft. The idea of being dazed after his lore check, although it sounds like a drawback, it really isn't outside of combat. I’d like some kind of drawback to go with his domain, but I’ll probably handle that with the enforced visions not always being useful or leading to the expected or unfavorable outcomes. The player in question is a fairly heavy role player, so I have no doubt he’ll self impose restrictions appropriate to whatever visions he receives.

Aestolia, I also felt a +4 to what amounts to most will saves way too good myself, glad to have confirmation on my feelings. Considering that the theme of the adventure I'm running will require the PC's to resists the return of the gods of madness, I'm not sure I'd like one member of my group who is dabbling in their knowledge no less to be the one member of the party particularly resistant to their influence, if anything givin that he seems to be seeking knowledge in areas he shouldn’t I like the idea of his will saves being less resistant.

Anyway, I’m going to take both of your ideas, maybe tweak them a bit and run them past him and see what he thinks. Again thanks for the thoughts.

 

[Slapzilla]

Prophecy and Madness are states that can come on whenever they want, too.

Prophesy is (to me) a crystal clear vision of the ramifications of one's actions. Foresight, understanding... Wisdom. If Waking Trance allows the 'boon' of a Divination school spell via ritual but fatigues you until you rest for a number of hours equal to the bonus spell's level, (above and beyond a regular night's rest) then I think it limits abuse potential, has a drawback and fits the feel of both prophesy and what you seem to be shooting for. You could also limit it to a once daily use and remove the fatigue entirely. You could also impose it on the character whenever you wanted, with or without the fatigue, but you risk annoying the player. I also like the potential for a Bardic Knowledge style check randomly given to the PC.

Madness on the other hand, is (to me) much like a drug induced state where connections are made in an altered logic state. It may make perfect sense to the one in the state, but doesn't stand up in the light of day. Farscape was a setting for DnD and Call of Cthulu is a d20 game (hard to find nowadays) that had madness as an... issue. CoC had a great system where you'd take your Wisdom score, multiply it by 5 and get your sanity stat. Whenever the void touched you you rolled percentile dice against your sanity and if you got under it, well, good. If over... you lost a bit of touch with reality. (I think it was a random die roll for the loss... 1d4 for small stuff, 10d6 for whoppers... ) What does the Madness give you? Firm convictions and powerful resolve. I think +4 vs charms, compulsions and morale effects in exchange for potentially losing your character's sanity is fair.

Let us know how it goes.