Help with feats for my Dwarf Fighter/Rogue

[Sal]

Hi all, I will lay out the feats i was thinking of taking for my 20 level build Fighter 13/Rogue 7 (Dwarf)

Anything to swap out for something better, let me know.

Stat's Str 16 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 6

Trap and lock specialist good tumble with ok climb, jump, swim

1 rogue ..1 feat TWF
2 fighter .1 feat oversized TWF (CAd)
3 fighter .2 feat Combat Expertise
................feat Craven (ChR)
4 rogue
5 fighter
6 fighter .2 feat Power Attack (for use with non SA critters with DR)
................feat Dodge
7 rogue
8 fighter
9 fighter .2 feat Improved TWF
................feat Titan Fighting (RoS)
10 rogue
11 fighter
12 fighter .2 feat Karmic Strike (CW)
.................feat Combat Relexes
13 rogue
14 fighter
15 fighter .2 feat Weapon Focus Dwarven Waraxe
.................feat Weapon Specialization
16 rogue
17 fighter
18 fighter .2 feat Weapon Mastery (Slashing) (PH2)
.................feat Overwhelming Assault (PH2) perhaps (Greater TWF)
19 rogue
20 fighter (or rogue for extra +1 reflex save)

Thanks for the help

Sincerely from Sal

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Why so much in Fighter, and why end at Fighter 13? Fighters don't get bonus feats on odd levels, meanwhile Rogue 8 gives you "Can't be flanked."

I'm just curious what you're planning to do. Lots of Fighter levels can work in some instances. Namely, the Zhentarim Fighter and Dungeon Crasher alternate class features/levels. But since you have charisma 6 and no bull rush feats, you don't appear to be going that route.

Also, get Staggering Strike from C.Adventurer. Every melee rogue should have it

Also check out the Penetrating Strike rogue alternate class feature in Dungeonscape. Swap Trap Sense for the ability to still do half SA damage to stuff immune to it.

I recommend these feats:
The entire TWF line, up through Greater
Craven
Staggering Strike
Savvy Rogue (if you hit Rogue level 10+; from C.Scoundrel)
Combat Reflexes
Robilar's Gambit
Backstab (from Dragon mag and crystalkeep if you can access either; a foe you flank provokes an AoO from you every time it attacks someone besides you)

I like Titan Fighting combined with a Dodge vs. all feat, like Desert Wind Dodge; but that's not very important ot this build. The reason Savvy Rogue is good...well, it's always good but particularly for you...is that the benefit it extends to the Opportunist Rogue ability is to use it as often per round as you have AoOs.

EDIT: If you do keep Dodge, check out the Elusive Target tactical feat in CW. It also requires Mobility, but you can obtain that as a +1 armor enhancement in the Magic Item Compendium called... "Mobility," handily enough.

 

[Dandu]

Telling Blow is useful if you plan on going for a crit based rogue build. Kukris come to mind.

May I suggest an alternative class progression?

Rogue 1/Ranger 3/Rogue 16

Lots of skills, decent BAB, no need for Dex 15 for TWF since the Ranger provides it as a bonus feat, and the ability to really focus on strength... LIKE A DWARF! If you have prestige classes you'd like to take, throw them on after the Ranger levels. If Endurance is not a big deal for you, cut it out - I included it here because it's better than the Rogue 17 ability, and qualifies you for Steadfast Determination and the Deepwarden prestige class.

 

[Andras]

I am currently playing a Dwarf Rg11/F4 right now (took Ftr1-4 @ 6th-9th)
Str 26/Dx22/Cn18
I'm planning on Rg16, Ftr 4


1)Impr Init
3)2wFight
6)WFocus-waraxe
6f1)Oversized 2WFight
7f2)Quickdraw
9f4)WSpec-WarAxe
9)Staggering Strike
12)MeleeWeaponMastery
15)2wpn Pounce
(w Impr2wf by an item)

Considering Law Devotion, Animal Devotion and Community Devotion for 17,18,and 20.

Large Waraxes via StrongArm Bracers and Sizing Enhancement
WarAxe+2Keen +25/2d8+14 (18w Girallon's Blessing the Primary weapon is wielded in 2 hands)
WarAxe+2SpellStoring +25/2d8+10 (+10d8 via Sorc's Combust spell)

He has a trait and an item that combined give +3dmg when flanking
He's done over 140pts in one round w/no SA dice, and almost 190 w SA

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Telling Blow is useful if you plan on going for a crit based rogue build. Kukris come to mind.

May I suggest an alternative class progression?

Rogue 1/Ranger 3/Rogue 16

Lots of skills, decent BAB, no need for Dex 15 for TWF since the Ranger provides it as a bonus feat, and the ability to really focus on strength... LIKE A DWARF! If you have prestige classes you'd like to take, throw them on after the Ranger levels. If Endurance is not a big deal for you, cut it out - I included it here because it's better than the Rogue 17 ability, and qualifies you for Steadfast Determination and the Deepwarden prestige class.

If his DM uses multiclass xp penalty rules, he's need the Jungle (iirc) Dwarf to get Ranger as a favored class. Not aware of any Dwarf subraces that give Rogue as favored, though there might be.

 

[Dandu]

Jungle dwarves are pretty cool.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Telling Blow is useful if you plan on going for a crit based rogue build. Kukris come to mind.

Telling Blow is a trap. Its relying on fate too much. You should either ensure that all of your attacks are SAs, or move into a position to SA reliably (via tumble, probably). Even with an 18-20 weapon and Improved Crit, you still only have a 1-4 chance of triggering SA. If you have 4 attacks, only one of them might trigger it, statistically. Thus, it would be better to tumble into a flanking position if you can and attack once with 100% garunteed SA. At higher levels, its not hard to get other abilities that enable 100% SA in nearly all situations. Pick a couple, they are better than blowing 2 feats on Imp Crit and Telling Blow.

It simply lures the rogue into a false sense of ability, rather than sticking to what works. Don't roll any more dice than you have to...adventuring is already a dangerous job.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Agreed with Wyvern, though I also have horrible luck. But there's enough material in splatbooks to ensure you can sneak attack without Telling Blow. If Telling Blow let you do sneak attack damage again or gave some sort of other bonus when you already were meeting the requirements for sneak attack, it'd be worthwhile.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Telling Blow does kinda open up a couple of corner cases.

1: Normally, you can apply precision damage to a foe with any degree of concealment. You can, however, crit a person with concealment just fine. If you crit a foe with conealment and sucessfully hit them despite the conealment, you would get to apply SA to them.

2: Normally, you can't apply precision damage to a foe further away than 30'. With Telling Blow, you simply have to confirm a critical. With enough range, you could theoretically SA someone in the next zip code, assuming the dice fell in your favor. Then again, from that range, you are effectively invisible anyway (due to range penalties to spot), but the point still stands for medium engagement range.

Again, taking 2 feats so that you can apply SA in rare but possible circumstances is generally a poor investment. A Spiked Chain tripper could sink a feat in Weapon Focus: Longbow for the occasional time he doesn't have any better options, or he could better spend the feat on something that helps him all the time, like Combat Reflexes or Knockdown. Feats are an unlimited resource, even for a fighter.

 

[Sal]

Why so much in Fighter, and why end at Fighter 13? Fighters don't get bonus feats on odd levels, meanwhile Rogue 8 gives you "Can't be flanked."

I'm just curious what you're planning to do. Lots of Fighter levels can work in some instances. Namely, the Zhentarim Fighter and Dungeon Crasher alternate class features/levels. But since you have charisma 6 and no bull rush feats, you don't appear to be going that route.

Also, get Staggering Strike from C.Adventurer. Every melee rogue should have it

Also check out the Penetrating Strike rogue alternate class feature in Dungeonscape. Swap Trap Sense for the ability to still do half SA damage to stuff immune to it.

I recommend these feats:
The entire TWF line, up through Greater
Craven
Staggering Strike
Savvy Rogue (if you hit Rogue level 10+; from C.Scoundrel)
Combat Reflexes
Robilar's Gambit
Backstab (from Dragon mag and crystalkeep if you can access either; a foe you flank provokes an AoO from you every time it attacks someone besides you)

I like Titan Fighting combined with a Dodge vs. all feat, like Desert Wind Dodge; but that's not very important ot this build. The reason Savvy Rogue is good...well, it's always good but particularly for you...is that the benefit it extends to the Opportunist Rogue ability is to use it as often per round as you have AoOs.

EDIT: If you do keep Dodge, check out the Elusive Target tactical feat in CW. It also requires Mobility, but you can obtain that as a +1 armor enhancement in the Magic Item Compendium called... "Mobility," handily enough.

Are alternate class feature allowed in heroforge? If so I would be able to take it.

I take Combat Expertise at 3rd which is required for karmic strike. should I keep it or trade it for possibly Dodge, WFocus or Combat Reflexes. Are there any other good low level feats I should take here? I assume you can't use Robilar's Gambit and also Karmic Strike.

at 6th I take dodge, which again required for Karmic Strike (and Titan Fighting). Again what should I take. I'm thinking if I took WF previously, here I could take W Specialzation.

At 9th I could finally swap out Titan Fighting for Staggering Strike.

At 12th I don't think I have access to Backstab (I know nothing about prerequisites). I can give up Karmic Strike (getting Robilar's Gambit at 15th) for Weapon Mastery (Slashing), but what do I get in exchange for Combat Reflexes (which I can take at 15th for Robilar's) (Duh I just realized I can take Greater TWF)

at 15th as I stated previously, I take Robilar's Gambit and Combat Reflexes.

at 18th I suggest Vexing Flanker and Overwhelming Assault. These are obviously open for discussion.

Thanks for the help. The revised feat progression is outlined below.

1 rogue ..1 feat TWF
2 fighter .1 feat oversized TWF (CAd)
3 fighter .2 feat Weapon Focus Waraxe
................feat Craven (ChR)
4 rogue
5 fighter
6 fighter .2 feat Power Attack (for use with non SA critters with DR)
................feat Weapon Specialization
7 rogue
8 fighter
9 fighter .2 feat Improved TWF
................feat Staggering Strike (CAd)
10 rogue
11 fighter
12 fighter .2 feat Weapon Mastery (Slashing) (PH2)
.................feat Greater TWF
13 rogue
14 fighter
15 fighter .2 feat Robilar's Gambit
.................feat Combat Reflexes
16 rogue
17 fighter
18 fighter .2 feat Vexing Flanker (PH2)
.................feat Overwhelming Assault (PH2)