Helpless & AoO...

[Psimancer]

After a couple of unrealistic instances in the last few games, I am seriously thinking about adding this into the Helpless description:

A helpless character provokes an attack of opportunity on their initiative (or initiative 0).

Has anyone else tried this, or can anyone see a major flaw in its utilisation???

 

[FireLance]

Sounds good to me. It would make combats more deadly, especially for dying characters, but it would give the helpless character's allies a big incentive to move him out of the threatened area of any enemies, even without the potential of a CDG.

You might want to consider how many AOOs a character with Combat Reflexes gets against a helpless enemy. The same logic that leads you to conclude that a helpless character should attract an AOO should lead you to conclude that he would attract as many or more AOOs than a character who provokes AOOs with his move action and his standard action.

Would you allow an enemy attempting to CDG the helpless character an AOO? It sounds reasonable, but would it be overkill?

Would you consider an ally occupying the same square as the helpless character to provide cover and hence negate any AOOs?

 

[genshou]

Sounds good to me. It would make combats more deadly, especially for dying characters, but it would give the helpless character's allies a big incentive to move him out of the threatened area of any enemies, even without the potential of a CDG.

You might want to consider how many AOOs a character with Combat Reflexes gets against a helpless enemy. The same logic that leads you to conclude that a helpless character should attract an AOO should lead you to conclude that he would attract as many or more AOOs than a character who provokes AOOs with his move action and his standard action.

Would you allow an enemy attempting to CDG the helpless character an AOO? It sounds reasonable, but would it be overkill?

Would you consider an ally occupying the same square as the helpless character to provide cover and hence negate any AOOs?

The following is canon in 3.0:
You cannot make attacks of opportunity against foes who have at least 1/2 cover relative to you.
In 3.5, this applies against all cover, since they stupified the cover rules by allowing only two degrees of it (cover and total cover). An ally standing in the same square as a helpless character could easily provide their friend at least 1/2 cover, assuming they aren't a smaller size category than the one they seek to aid.

I don't like these rules, and that's for both flavor and mechanics reasons. But if you're using them, there should definitely be ways to counter them (such as cover). That way, they don't become uber-powered.

 

[Psimancer]

Good questions…

It would make combats more deadly, especially for dying characters, but it would give the helpless character's allies a big incentive to move him out of the threatened area of any enemies, even without the potential of a CDG.

Yes, it would, but I am working on some other rules that would synergise with this to counteract the deadliness. Similar to the Unearthed Arcana ‘Fortitude Save’ Death & Dying rules (pg 121)

You might want to consider how many AOOs a character with Combat Reflexes gets against a helpless enemy.

I despise Combat Reflexes as a feat and since none in my group have it, I might just ban it outright (or re-write it).

Would you allow an enemy attempting to CDG the helpless character an AOO? It sounds reasonable, but would it be overkill?

Yes, it would be overkill. I might rule that when you CDG you do not threaten, therefore no AoOs... in fact, I might rule that you must declare a CDG the round before you perform it...

Would you consider an ally occupying the same square as the helpless character to provide cover and hence negate any AOOs?

Most definitely. It would be one of the things that would stop an AoO and invalidate a CDG (see above)


Psimancer

 

[genshou]

Yes, it would be overkill. I might rule that when you CDG you do not threaten, therefore no AoOs... in fact, I might rule that you must declare a CDG the round before you perform it...

That's too complicated. Instead, simply rule that a creature who performed an AoO against an opponent for being helpless may not attempt a CDG against them in the following round. A character casting a spell as a full-round action still threatens an area and can whack someone on the head as they run past. Performing a CDG right after using an AoO on that opponent in the previous round for being helpless is definitely overkill, but just because you are using a full-round action to make a precise and calculated strike, that doesn't mean you should lose your ability to perform any AoOs.