Pathfinder 2E Here's The Pathfinder 2nd Edition Skill List!

It's another Tuesday, which means another look at the previous night's Pathfinder 2nd Edition preview! There's only a couple of month to go until the full playtest rules are released (I have the hardcover on pre-order). Until then, Paizo continue with their twice-weekly glimpses into the ruleset - and this time we look at skills!

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• 17 base skills down from 35.
• Lots of consolidation -- Athletics contains a bunch, and Use Magic Device is replaced by the relevant Lore skill
• You are trained in more skills than before -- fighter has an extra one, for example (3+ Int mod)
• Skill list --
  • Acrobatics (Dex)
  • Arcana (Int)
  • Athletics (Str)
  • Crafting (Int)
  • Deception (Cha)
  • Diplomacy (Cha)
  • Intimidation (Cha)
  • Lore (Int)
  • Medicine (Wis)
  • Nature (Wis)
  • Occultism (Int)
  • Performance (Cha)
  • Religion (Wis)
  • Society (Int)
  • Stealth (Dex)
  • Survival (Wis)
  • Thievery (Dex)
• Skill proficiency --
  • Untrained -2, trained +0, expert +1, master +2, legendary +3 (plus level and ability modifier)
  • Each level of proficiency unlocks new skill uses
  • Medicine's Administer First Aid ability is available at the untrained level, being trained allows you to Treat Disease and Treat Poison
• Skill feats --
  • Usually at even levels you choose a skill feat
  • Rogues get them every level
  • Prerequisite is a level of proficiency in a skill (e.g. "legendary in Medicine")
  • Example is the Legendary Medic, which lets you remove diseases and conditions.
  • Stealth has skill feats like Quiet Allies (help your party sneak), Swift Sneak (move at full speed while sneaking), and at legendary level you just sneak everywhere constantly.

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[Morrus]

The major difference is that we have absolutely zero basis in reality for how much time it's supposed to take in order get that much better at casting magic spells. We do have a pretty solid basis in reality for how much time it's supposed to take in order to master mundane skills, and in most cases it takes longer than a few months of intermittent study.

Imaginary things can be as amazing as we want them to be. Real things are limited by what sounds plausible.

Well that depends on the genre, surely? James Bond doesn’t sound plausible, but we accept his expertise at everything. We are talking about heroic fantasy here, not a realism simulator. PCs are James Bond.

 

[prosfilaes]

Greater than the in-game length of a typical Pathfinder campaign. Maybe you can go from Magic Missile to Meteor Storm in three months, but it takes longer than three months to go from microwaving pizzas to being the best chef in the world.

Often not in fiction. How many teenage supergeniuses invent time-machines and other superscience creations?

I find three months quite implausible; that level of arcane mastery should take much more time. If it takes three months, we would be looking at a world where everyone would pick up as much magic as they could, and street gangs would be throwing around meteor swarms. There's no neat line here.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Well that depends on the genre, surely? James Bond doesn’t sound plausible, but we accept his expertise at everything. We are talking about heroic fantasy here, not a realism simulator. PCs are James Bond.

If we're going to accept that PCs can master blacksmithing quickly, because they master everything else quickly, then I guess that's fair. I was just pointing out that the distinction between reality-based content and fantasy-based content is a long and enduring one, which is why (to quote the meme), "Fighters can't have nice things."

 

[Yaarel]

I strongly prefer consolidation for the skill list, especially when applying different abilities for the same skill set.

For example, Atheltics (Str) + Acrobatics (Dex) −› Athletics (Any)

 

[JoeElf]

I find three months quite implausible; that level of arcane mastery should take much more time. If it takes three months, we would be looking at a world where everyone would pick up as much magic as they could, and street gangs would be throwing around meteor swarms...

They are simplifying the experience rules also, so I think it aligns with what PFS games currently do in PF1e. If they do go by those levels, you'd basically be playing one adventure per week and earn 1/3 of a level. So you'd get from neophyte to level 20 after 60 weeks. Of course, some people aren't playing that often, and home games will likely have different XP progression at various points in the adventurer's career.

 

[Shasarak]

Greater than the in-game length of a typical Pathfinder campaign. Maybe you can go from Magic Missile to Meteor Storm in three months, but it takes longer than three months to go from microwaving pizzas to being the best chef in the world.

You see Cooking shows on TV all the time where average people go from microwaving pizza to best chefs in about three months.

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you really want to stop the 1 to 20th level jump in less in a year; then you really need to change the leveling rules. Maybe limiting level gains to one per month? Requiring exponential time blocks of training to level up? Requiring downtime between adventures?

 

[JoeElf]

Assuming PF2e follows the PFS progression for PF1e, if you level up once every 3 sessions, you'd get to 2nd after 3 sessions. For PF2e, assuming it goes to level 20 instead of just 12, you'd need 3 sessions * 19 level-ups = 57 sessions. If you average one per week, that's just over a year. That seems reasonable enough to me.

I cannot see anyone going from 1st to 20th in 3 months, unless you are playing 5 times per week with that same XP pace of one level per 3 sessions.

 

[JNCuddlefish]

I like this proficiency system, but I kinda HATE the idea that your whole Level is added to Skill profieciency. It's kinda like implying that a legendary chef is less competent than a LV fighter who has tried cooking before.

Maybe it's just a consequence of Levels in the system as a whole, but damn.

 

[Kurviak]

I like this proficiency system, but I kinda HATE the idea that your whole Level is added to Skill profieciency. It's kinda like implying that a legendary chef is less competent than a LV fighter who has tried cooking before.

Maybe it's just a consequence of Levels in the system as a whole, but damn.

It's a consequence of the level system as you say but they are mitigating it. In the case you mention the legendary chef can make a legendary meal, the 20th level fighter can't even attempt to do it