D&D 5E Here's why we want a Psion class

[Maxperson]

we personally believe a player who would like their 5e character to have some telepathic powers should not not have to rely on burning their character's ASIs until they get lucky.

They can choose the telepathic feat.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Not just me. WotC also believes that psionics in 5e should not use VSM. The supportive evidence is very strong on that. They continued it in 3e, 4e and in 5e UA articles, including the new sorcery subclass.

Indeed. Just like WotC would appear to believe that character selection choices should be choosable, not random.

They can choose the telepathic feat.

Then what purpose would having a feat that might grant you telepathic abilities if you roll lucky serve if there is also a feat that grants you the same level of capability that you can just choose?

 

[Ovinomancer]

Taking that many psionic feats means that you have no ASIs. You are trading off one thing for another, which causes the PC to suffer in other areas. Further, a resource that will fade and become unusable as the psionic die diminishes has to compare to feats like GWM with it's +10 damage on every hit 24/7.

You can also limit the power by making it so that you can only use powers from the 3rd list while you psionic die is at d10 and d12, 2nd list while it is at d6 and d8, and the 1st list at any die size. This represents diminishing power as you use your abilities and would help balance things.

You've tierd psionic powers, presumably along similar lines to spells because you've tied them to getting more powerful as level increases (or you take more feats, which is still level based). This means that you're getting more powerful options the more feats you spend, whereas ASIs are the same no matter when/how many you take and GWM is the same no matter when you take it. If you make psionics feat based and increase in power the number of feats you take, you've made it a tiered resource, which is unlike any other feat and which is expressly against what WotC's design philosophy for feats is.

Those aren't ideas about psionics, though. Psionics doesn't use VSM.

Assuming the conclusion in the premise isn't a strong start, but we've covered that ground pretty well at this point.

 

[Maxperson]

You've tierd psionic powers, presumably along similar lines to spells because you've tied them to getting more powerful as level increases (or you take more feats, which is still level based). This means that you're getting more powerful options the more feats you spend, whereas ASIs are the same no matter when/how many you take and GWM is the same no matter when you take it. If you make psionics feat based and increase in power the number of feats you take, you've made it a tiered resource, which is unlike any other feat and which is expressly against what WotC's design philosophy for feats is.

They have altered that philosophy as their recent UA shows. They have no problem with prerequisites and building power as feat trees go on. It's something that they are currently exploring.

 

[Maxperson]

I personally would not use a system where a player would have to spend one of their character's ASIs/feats for a random chance at something that they want. I'd just use normal feats and allow them to pick.

Which is fine. I change things with the game all the time. I'd rather have them put out the random system and then alter it to be a choice, than have them make it a choice and then have to alter it myself to be random. One is far more work for DMs and I don't have the resources to balance and test things the way they do.

I've not got a problem with humans potentially being more psychic than some other races. Or with Fighters and Rogues using their class ASIs to gain abilities outside of potential pure combat optimisation.

I don't mind humans being more psychic, but I wouldn't want fighters and rogues being more psychic. I think classes(other than psionic subclasses) should be equal with psionics if it's an add on, rather than a Psion class. Maybe they could use those extra ASIs if they have chose a psionic subclass.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

They have altered that philosophy as their recent UA shows. They have no problem with prerequisites and building power as feat trees go on. It's something that they are currently exploring.

If that philosophy gets 70% approval then yeah.

I don't think the survey's gone up though yet, and I personally will vote against it, for the reasons already said.

 

[Ovinomancer]

They have altered that philosophy as their recent UA shows. They have no problem with prerequisites and building power as feat trees go on. It's something that they are currently exploring.

No, they haven't, unless you think taking magical initiate and then taking spell sniper to use with your magic initiate granted spells is a feat chain. It's not. One grants you access to magic outside the class system, the other only interacts with the magic you have, regardless of source. The Psionic feats are just like this -- you have to have psionics from some source to use the feat because it keys off of the psionics, just like you have to have spells to use spell sniper. It's not a power chain, it's a way to 1) get psionics outside of a class and then, separately, 2) a way to improve psionics that doesn't care how you got them. Not at all the same thing as a feat chain.

 

[Maxperson]

If that philosophy gets 70% approval then yeah.

I don't think the survey's gone up though yet, and I personally will vote against it, for the reasons already said.

Go for it. Or, they might already know based on feedback over the years.

 

[Maxperson]

No, they haven't, unless you think taking magical initiate and then taking spell sniper to use with your magic initiate granted spells is a feat chain.

Try taking Telekinetic, Telepathic, Metabolic Control or Tower of Iron Will without the prerequisite feat or psionic subclass. If you want to take one of those as a Champion Fighter, you need the feat chain.

 

[Guest 6801328]

No, they haven't, unless you think taking magical initiate and then taking spell sniper to use with your magic initiate granted spells is a feat chain. It's not. One grants you access to magic outside the class system, the other only interacts with the magic you have, regardless of source. The Psionic feats are just like this -- you have to have psionics from some source to use the feat because it keys off of the psionics, just like you have to have spells to use spell sniper. It's not a power chain, it's a way to 1) get psionics outside of a class and then, separately, 2) a way to improve psionics that doesn't care how you got them. Not at all the same thing as a feat chain.

The various armor feats could be seen the same way. One could argue (incorrectly) that Heavy Armor Master is the end of a feat chain, because if you're a Wizard you would have to take all the other armor feats to get there.