Heretics of Dune, help me understand what I just read, please.

[Jhamin]

If I remember correctly, one of Leto II's goals in the Golden Path was to create a new strain of humanity who didn't show up in his visions of the future, thus freeing us from the trap of prophetic predestination. Therefore, he wanted something he couldn't expect.

And as I understand it, Leto's plan was something like:

- Create a version of humanity that can use prescience without being trapped by it
- Force humanity to grow socially to the next level. Existing political traditions were keeping the old forms alive well past when they should have died.
- Spread humanity beyond the old imperium.
- Re-mix the DNA of humanity. Also to avoid stagnation. He had seen that the Jihyad his father had launched produced a new and vibrant human species, which then stagnated as everyone settled down. He planned to "fermet" the genome for a few thousand years under his rule, then allow the pot to stir again after his assassination.

A lot of the pescient people who showed up later discovered that the only future they could see was the one Leto II had set up. This should only have been possible if he was still actively seeing the future. It was then that someone realized that all living sandworms are descended from the ones that broke off of Leto II at the end of God Emperor, and are probably empowered with his vision.

Which is why they nuked Dune to glass. They hoped to end his influence. But unfortunatly they couldn't know if that was part of his plan as well..

 

[Wolf72]

spoiler alert:

Spoiler

The Enemy is the machines ... and apparently their fleet is larger than ever

 

[occam]

You know, I've read almost all of the Dune novels, including the "prequals" by Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson. I think I can say with full confidence that Herbert absolutely should have stopped with the first three novels.

Dune, Children, and Messiah are some of the best science fiction that's ever been written. The second trilogy were utterly confusing to me, and the prequals, while sometimes interesting and enlightening, were for the most part drek (and yet, I kept reading!). I'll probably still finish "Hunters" but I'm creeking forward ever more slowly with each volume.

I have almost the opposite reactions to the series. While Dune and Children of Dune were excellent books, the first half, at least, of Dune Messiah was just awful, up until Paul lost his sight. I loved God Emperor, and rather than slowing down, I felt the pace really accelerated with both Heretics and Chapterhouse. I was really bummed about that being the last book.

I haven't gotten Hunters yet, but I probably will. I haven't read any of the prequels, and haven't decided if I ever will.

 

[Seonaid]

I read the original books and loved them. I agree that at times they were really confusing and slow, but for the most part I thought they were fantastic.

That being said, I've been hesitant about picking up any of the ones that weren't written by him. Can anyone give me a good review of any (or all) of them? I know some people have mentioned them here, so I figured I'd ask for a more detailed review.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

For my money, the last three of the "real" Dune books are the ones I like the best. A precognitive so powerful he could write notes on a wall for someone -- by name -- to read centuries later certainly knew what he was doing. The idea of a dictator forcing a diaspora for what only someone as long-lived as him would know to be benevolent reasons is really neat and a lot more exciting and mind-bending (to me) than the fairly conservative near-future sci-fi we normally get.

And yeah, I was bummed that Chapter House was the end, since it really felt like it was setting up a whole new series there.

 

[Welverin]

And yeah, I was bummed that Chapter House was the end, since it really felt like it was setting up a whole new series there.

Well, it wasn't the end. It just happened to be the last book Frank finished before dying.

Can anyone give me a good review of any (or all) of them?

Me, no. I will say I was entertained and didn't regret reading them, but them I'm more accepting that most around here, or I just have really low standards.

Check here, or you can always read the reader reviews at Amazon.com

Here's alist of Brian and Kevin's books in case you don't know what all of them are:
Prelude to Dune: House Atreides, House Harkonnen, House Corrino
Legends of Dune: The Butlerian Jihad, The Machine Crusade, The Battle of Corrin
Dune 7: Hunters of Dune, Sandworms of Dune (based on work Frank did)

While on the subject, does anyone know of a good site for reviews of novels?

 

[Welverin]

Forgot to mention that I saw that this while looking around wikipedia: Paul of Dune

 

[Nyarlathotep]

While I loved the first three books, my absolute favorite has to be God-Emperor. I'm not sure what it is, but the book seemed really profound to me, especially the little quotes that opened each chapter. Wasn't as big a fan of the 5th and 6th book until I reread them a couple of years back, but I'm a convert now.

Unfortunately, his son's writing strikes me as .... really bad. I tried reading one of the first books that he released and couldn't finish it, it seemed to much like he had the writing style of a dime-novel author (to me at least).b

 

[Remus Lupin]

The Prelude novels, from the generation just before Paul (the "House" novels) were pretty good, insofar as they filled us in on some backstory that was important for understanding what happened later. Although there were a number of spots where Brian H. and Kevin Anderson did wierd things to the narrative that retroactively spoiled aspects of the original novels, particularly in the relationship between Leto and Jessica. Though I did like the back story on Baron Harkonnen.

The Legends books (the Crusade/Jihad novels) were. just. terrible. They really did retroactively ruin the original novels for me. Whatever I thought the Butlerian Jihad was, I didn't think it was THAT! And what was with the Titans? They were totally unnecessary and had no basis in the earlier (that is to say later) stories. Worst of all, by the last few chapters of "Battle of Corin" I got the feeling that they realized that they had far too many threads to wrap up, and so they just hastily cut a bunch of loose threads in completely unconvincing ways.

So, overall, I'd say avoid the Legends of Dune series. If you accidently read them, do what I do and pretend they never happened. Read the Prelude for some interesting backstory, but don't knock yourself out for them. The originals hang together just fine without them.

 

[Seonaid]

Thank you! I have been avoiding them because I'm of the firm opinion that people who aren't the original writer/conceiver can't really continue the story well (and often aren't as good at actually writing). But I really loved the Dune books, so I'm still undecided.