circadianwolf
First Post
Eagle Shamans are the only leader build with Dex as a primary or secondary stat. 
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Heroes of Shadow: Assassins, Hexblades, and Necromancers!
- Thread starter Mentat55
- Start date
I can certainly see the Necromancer as a controller. The Hexblade, to me, looks like a defender (al la SwordMage). Of course, we all know the Assassin is a Striker.
I can definitely see a shadow sourced Leader of some type. Maybe their healing mechanic would be applying either a minor status effect or a small amount of damage to an enemy, then allowing allies to spend a healing surge. The fluff would be that the Shadow leader would "drain" the enemy, then give that life-force to their companions.
I can definitely see a shadow sourced Leader of some type. Maybe their healing mechanic would be applying either a minor status effect or a small amount of damage to an enemy, then allowing allies to spend a healing surge. The fluff would be that the Shadow leader would "drain" the enemy, then give that life-force to their companions.
Ryujin
Legend
I could see the Necromancer being a Leader. Debuffs are just as effective as buffs, and that could be accomplished through "life force draining" fluff. Boosting an ally with necrotic power sounds reasonable, in context, as a healing effect, as would be draining the life out of an opponent in order to heal an ally.
Classes have a "what" that they do, and a "how" that they do it.
The "what" is the role question. Do they funnel damage away from the party, lay the hurt on individual enemies, debuff/disrupt enemies, or buff/heal allies?
The "how" is a style question. Do they do their thing in melee or at range? Do they use weapons or implements? What defenses do they target? What status effects do they inflict? How are their abilities described?
The fundamental aspect of the Necromancy concept is of a evil (or at least 'morally challenged') spell caster who creates undead monsters to do his bidding.
That's great and iconic and totally worthy of getting its own class, but that's all "how" and no "what". A true to concept necromancer class could easily be built that does any of the main roles, as undead minions can be used for each of them.
Necrofender? Con based pet class with a single tough pets, or multiple wussier ones, with life draining spells that grant him temporary hit points and a marking ability that lets his undead buddies slap enemies who attack targets other then the Necro or his minions. The buddies themselves are easily destroyed, but the necro can keep them up by channeling them some of his hit points when he takes damage.
Necrostriker? Pet class with single, high damage pet, or multiple wussier pets and powers that let each of them make attacks with focus fire possible, supplemented by single target death spells combining high ongoing damage and a disruptive save ends status effect.
Necroleader? Pet class with one or more pets that attack for minimal damage but apply penalties to Defenses and Saves. Necro grants temp HP and saves to allies via necrotic energy, and channels HP from enemies for true healing.
Necrotroller? Multiple pets and/or summons acting as unliving walls and allowing the necromancer to strike multiple targets simultaniously. Supplemented with status impairing zones of dark magic.
So yeah, the necromancer could be anything. I'd personally if the necro were not a stiker or leader, since we already have pet classes for those. Of the remaining two rolls, I think controller is the best thematic fit, but that's just personal opinion.
The "what" is the role question. Do they funnel damage away from the party, lay the hurt on individual enemies, debuff/disrupt enemies, or buff/heal allies?
The "how" is a style question. Do they do their thing in melee or at range? Do they use weapons or implements? What defenses do they target? What status effects do they inflict? How are their abilities described?
The fundamental aspect of the Necromancy concept is of a evil (or at least 'morally challenged') spell caster who creates undead monsters to do his bidding.
That's great and iconic and totally worthy of getting its own class, but that's all "how" and no "what". A true to concept necromancer class could easily be built that does any of the main roles, as undead minions can be used for each of them.
Necrofender? Con based pet class with a single tough pets, or multiple wussier ones, with life draining spells that grant him temporary hit points and a marking ability that lets his undead buddies slap enemies who attack targets other then the Necro or his minions. The buddies themselves are easily destroyed, but the necro can keep them up by channeling them some of his hit points when he takes damage.
Necrostriker? Pet class with single, high damage pet, or multiple wussier pets and powers that let each of them make attacks with focus fire possible, supplemented by single target death spells combining high ongoing damage and a disruptive save ends status effect.
Necroleader? Pet class with one or more pets that attack for minimal damage but apply penalties to Defenses and Saves. Necro grants temp HP and saves to allies via necrotic energy, and channels HP from enemies for true healing.
Necrotroller? Multiple pets and/or summons acting as unliving walls and allowing the necromancer to strike multiple targets simultaniously. Supplemented with status impairing zones of dark magic.
So yeah, the necromancer could be anything. I'd personally if the necro were not a stiker or leader, since we already have pet classes for those. Of the remaining two rolls, I think controller is the best thematic fit, but that's just personal opinion.
The Necro could work as most roles if designed for it tbh.
Leader - Lots of debuffs that transfer HP or other such benefits to the party, and Pet Conjurations that give flanking (like a spiritual weapon effect). The basic heal would probably be the only tricky bit but a version where you had to hit a target to activate it, or it spent a different ally's surge than it healed (to indicate the "Steal and Impart Lifeforce" idea)
Controller - Summoning Wizard with undead pets and necrotic damage.
Striker - Could run quite similar to a Warlock but with necrotic damage, and maybe with a boon style effect that those you kill are dominated by you for a turn before they "die". Or maybe a Minor action 'Pet attack' to give the striker damage bonus. So the Necro doesn't auto do striker damage if its normal attack hits but it can have the extra damage scored even when its normal attack misses sometimes.
Defender - A couple of "controller-y" effects but the main trick being a Pet that marks and has a punishment for ignoring the Pet in favour of others. So this basically makes the Necro a defender by him/her having a permanently controlled "Fighter" as a Pet. Link the Pet's HP so that half the damage goes to the Necro and half to the Pet, or give the Pet low HP and let the Necro transfer his/her HP to the Pet as a Minor action (so the Necro still has to take the damage but can be more careful about it so doesn't need as many as most defenders assuming the Pet has enough to survive a little while unhealed).
Leader - Lots of debuffs that transfer HP or other such benefits to the party, and Pet Conjurations that give flanking (like a spiritual weapon effect). The basic heal would probably be the only tricky bit but a version where you had to hit a target to activate it, or it spent a different ally's surge than it healed (to indicate the "Steal and Impart Lifeforce" idea)
Controller - Summoning Wizard with undead pets and necrotic damage.
Striker - Could run quite similar to a Warlock but with necrotic damage, and maybe with a boon style effect that those you kill are dominated by you for a turn before they "die". Or maybe a Minor action 'Pet attack' to give the striker damage bonus. So the Necro doesn't auto do striker damage if its normal attack hits but it can have the extra damage scored even when its normal attack misses sometimes.
Defender - A couple of "controller-y" effects but the main trick being a Pet that marks and has a punishment for ignoring the Pet in favour of others. So this basically makes the Necro a defender by him/her having a permanently controlled "Fighter" as a Pet. Link the Pet's HP so that half the damage goes to the Necro and half to the Pet, or give the Pet low HP and let the Necro transfer his/her HP to the Pet as a Minor action (so the Necro still has to take the damage but can be more careful about it so doesn't need as many as most defenders assuming the Pet has enough to survive a little while unhealed).
Insight
Adventurer
If the Necromancer is a Leader, I'd like to see their healing mechanic look something like this:
WORD OF CORRUPTION
Encounter (Special) * Healing, Shadow
Minor Action Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round. At 16th level, you can use this power three times per encounter.
Target: One creature
Effect: The target is affected by your word of corruption. The next ally who hits the target can spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points.
Increase the amount of additional hit points regained to 2d6 at 6th level, 3d6 at 11th level, 4d6 at 16th level, 5d6 at 21st level, and 6d6 at 26th level.
Obviously, you can tinker with the amount of bonus healing; the example given above is based on the Cleric's Healing Word power.
WORD OF CORRUPTION
Encounter (Special) * Healing, Shadow
Minor Action Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round. At 16th level, you can use this power three times per encounter.
Target: One creature
Effect: The target is affected by your word of corruption. The next ally who hits the target can spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points.
Increase the amount of additional hit points regained to 2d6 at 6th level, 3d6 at 11th level, 4d6 at 16th level, 5d6 at 21st level, and 6d6 at 26th level.
Obviously, you can tinker with the amount of bonus healing; the example given above is based on the Cleric's Healing Word power.
There are some serious problems with that power. Healer feature healing is supposed to be pretty reliable. That ability would only let you heal an ally in need if they were the next one to hit the monster (other allies better delay, and the guy who needs healing better not miss!). It's just not reliable enough to serve as a healer feature power. Makes a good encounter power tacked to damage, though.
Necromancy has had access to temporary hit points in the past. I'd rather just go with that.
False Life
You channel necrotic energy into your ally, filling them with
unnatural vigor and vitality
minor action, 2/encounter (+1 at lvl 16)
close burst 5, one ally in burst
the ally may spend a healing surge, but gains no hit points. instead the ally may make a saving throw against one effect that a save can end, and gains temporary hit points equal to his healing surge modifier +d6 (with additional dice based on level)
note the saving throw is there to give the necro a reason to hold onto the power and use it during an encounter, rather then just dropping them up front.
Then again, i'd prefer something that involves undead puppets in some way. perhaps key the range off of a pet? I don't know.
but a leader's base healing needs to be a little more reliable.
Necromancy has had access to temporary hit points in the past. I'd rather just go with that.
False Life
You channel necrotic energy into your ally, filling them with
unnatural vigor and vitality
minor action, 2/encounter (+1 at lvl 16)
close burst 5, one ally in burst
the ally may spend a healing surge, but gains no hit points. instead the ally may make a saving throw against one effect that a save can end, and gains temporary hit points equal to his healing surge modifier +d6 (with additional dice based on level)
note the saving throw is there to give the necro a reason to hold onto the power and use it during an encounter, rather then just dropping them up front.
Then again, i'd prefer something that involves undead puppets in some way. perhaps key the range off of a pet? I don't know.
but a leader's base healing needs to be a little more reliable.
Last edited:
Insight
Adventurer
Luckily, I'm not one of the actual designers, so no worries there. I'm sure they'll come up with something we didn't consider.
I suppose it could be rewritten to designate an ally and maybe it gives that ally a bonus to hit. I like the idea of requiring the ally to hit something, because I feel like that fits the power source better. Of course, temp hp works pretty well, too.
I suppose it could be rewritten to designate an ally and maybe it gives that ally a bonus to hit. I like the idea of requiring the ally to hit something, because I feel like that fits the power source better. Of course, temp hp works pretty well, too.
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