Heroes of Shadow Table of Contents

[Walking Dad]

...
There is also a section later on that spells out that there are New Powers for older classes, Clerics, Warlocks, and Wizards, in addition to Death domain, Binder, and Nether/Necromancy schools.
...

I think you are partial right, but I think that isn't stuff for the older classes. It is just stuff they too can use.

On the other hand, maybe you are alright and we will see new cleric at-wills and encounter attack powers that are not part of a domain...

And I highly doubt that were will be feats that require 'implement mastery' for example.

 

[Nullzone]

Warpriest.

nuff said, really.

Damn, you're so right. I guess we should start calling every edition of Dragon magazine essentials too since they sometimes have one article per edition devoted to those build options. Nevermind that there's nine other articles of content that are completely unrelated and stand on their own merits.

PS- And yet you missed the line right before that one which clearly says Cleric Options: New powers. Please don't be dense.

And no, it is not like the 'X Power' books. It contains new races.

[snip]

That said, yes, every new book will now contain essentials material. Live with it. The question remains, will there be new options for non-essential classes (and only them, not compatible with essentials, like new implement masteries for wizards)? I don't think so...

Binder warlock is a classic-PHB-ranged-warlock and has nothing to do with hexblades.

Necro/nethermancy wizard schools have nothing to do with the Mage; in fact, the Mage interpretation of them is listed completely separately.

I compared it to the player option books because it provides content based on a centralized theme. If you want to nitpick the fact that it has stuff that no other option book has, whatever. This isn't a courtroom though so the principle of precedent doesn't really fly.

I don't think so either. And that means I'm no longer interested.

I guess, I can stop looking at any forthcoming 4e product that is (mainly) aimed at players. The changes on the DM side of things have been less annoying, so I should still get good use out of things like the Nentir Vale MV.

Since they also cancelled the DDM line, this means I have more money to spend on other stuff. I think, I can live with that

So you're passing judgment without even seeing what the rest of the book looks like? We have no idea the direction they'll take the paragon paths or epic destinies; they've been very specific to emphasize that this book will have something for everyone, so I won't be surprised to see some material for martial and primal characters in there.


Respectfully, all three of you seriously need to back up and take a breath. Your prejudice is running away with your emotions and I feel badly for your gaming groups if everything you do is looked at through the lens of "HATE ESSENTIALS RAWRRRRRR".

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I think you are partial right, but I think that isn't stuff for the older classes. It is just stuff they too can use.

On the other hand, maybe you are alright and we will see new cleric at-wills and encounter attack powers that are not part of a domain...

And I highly doubt that were will be feats that require 'implement mastery' for example.

Does it really matter if new at-wills are part of a domain or not? Older classes can still take them.

I can understand the desire to have material that is compatible with older classes, but exclusive? That doesn't make any sense. There are already a ton of options that are exclusive to pre-E classes.

It sometimes feels like the anti-E crowd won't be happy unless or until WotC announces that they are completely forsaking Essentials and going back to producing only non-essentials material.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

And why should it? There are loads of folks who like to use both. Why can't we just live and let live?

It has already been explicitly stated that they are not discontinuing support for older classes, and it's not being abandoned, but new stuff is new, and needs support more than old stuff with almost 3 years of exclusive support. You might have to wait a bit before you see a lot of it, but this book will contain some stuff you can use.

Maybe not exclusive, but there will be some.

You want something that requires implement mastery? You do realize that there are already 6 implement masteries to, what, 3 schools?

Oh, and all the old classes are getting updates, one a month (two in June, by their stated intent), for the next 5 months. If that doesn't make you happy, I don't know what will.

 

[Nullzone]

Oh, and all the old classes are getting updates, one a month (two in June, by their stated intent), for the next 5 months. If that doesn't make you happy, I don't know what will.

Yes, but they're getting ESSENTIALIZED! THE HORROR!

 

[renau1g]

Hey, so when 4e was announced we had edition wars... Essentials isn't a new edition... what should we call this fighting over stuff now?

the E-wars (for Essentials), the OMG everything is still compatible-wars, the mid-edition wars? I don't know, I'm not creative enough I s'pose.

 

[Nullzone]

I'm sure if the naysayers had their way we'd be calling it the dark age or something

 

[Oates]

As others have stated, more than likely, it will contain material for both. Essential format classes (Blackguard, Executioner, Binder, Necromancer) and new powers for PHB1 classes; Wizard, Cleric, Warlock.

I am wary of the 'Vampire' class. I hope that it is an essential class without any basic on any of the standard classes [i.e. Slayer(Fighter), Cavalier(Paladin)]

I also find it odd that there is not any information concerning the Shadar-Kai ... the 'race' of shadow.

 

[MrMyth]

Huh?!

Don't these races already exist, both in classic and essentials? Is something new about them in the works, or is this more duplication of existing information across multiple books?

The ToC lists a couple specific entries for each race:
Dwarf = The Lure of Shadow, the Obsidian Cave
Eladrin = The Pale Court, The Twilight Phantoms
Elves = Gloaming Hearts, Dusk Elves
Halflings = The Bleak Paths, The Phantom Blades
Humans = First in Shadow, Dark Teachings

Nothing indicates they are just reprinting the standard race entries. Presumably they are just providing shadow-themed options. The Dusk Elves, for example, previously showed up as a bloodline in Dragon magazine (I believe). So some of those options may be racial bloodlines, others could just be backgrounds, etc.

 

[MrMyth]

Well, I had my question answered. This is essentials. Too bad.

My group and I have decided not to use Essentials after giving it a look, so I will not be needing this book. I imagine Feywild will be the same. Really too bad.

Fair enough, though it is pretty clear the book supports both Essentials as well as the original classes - as seen by having cleric options alongside warpriest options, wizard options alongside mage options.

Now, yes, presumably the format for presenting the new class builds and paragon paths will follow the same layout they used for Essentials. If that is truly your issue, that's rather silly. A Paragon Path still provides 2-3 benefits at level 11 (one based on Action Points) and another benefit at level 16, plus an encounter power at 11, a utility power at 12, and a daily power at 20.

The fact that those benefits are listed by level, rather than grouped into features vs powers, is a completely trivial difference, and hardly a good reason to boycott a book.

Now, if you and your group don't have characters that would benefit from these options, or would not be thematically appropriate to dabble in shadow power, that's a perfectly fair reason to avoid the book. But dismissing it as simply Essentials, and thus not worth your time... well, I don't see any real reason for it, but I suppose it is your money to spend and your decision to make.

 

[Xris Robin]

The only problem I have is that they decided to make Shadow a power source you add to other powers, leaving the poor original Assassin in the dust. The only pure Shadow option in this book is the monster class, Vampire. That's... disappointing for me.

A few things I noticed... the Vices (builds) for Blackguards are Domination and Fury, the Bloodlines (builds, also, I assume) for Vampires are Beguiler and Stalker, the Binder has Gloom and Star Pact, and the Hexblade also gains the Gloom Pact. No mention of Gloom for the original Warlock, but maybe in the June Class Compendium article? Or just some new powers under that section.

Also of note, Vryloka have a utility powers section same as the Shades. No mention of Shadar-Kai anywhere.