Heroes of the Feywild Speculation

[TwoSix]

Considering how awful the binder in HoS is, I would hope they don't bother with a second one unless they give it some decent controller class features/powers. Right now, the Binder is one of the only classes that is worthless because it's original parent class does everything it does, with more damage, the same overall flavor in many ways and is better at what its role is supposed to be.

Minding Wizards are doing the Warlock in a CC article, they have plenty of time to nerf it into oblivion to make the binder actually playable (God that is a terrifying thought).

I'm really tempted to play a binder in Essentials, simply to see if they're as bad as people say.

I'm also curious if the binder would stand out as being bad in a purely Essentials environment. Assuming access to HotFL/HotFK/HoS and relevant Dragon articles only, are they obviously worse controllers than mages or hunters?

 

[WalterKovacs]

I'm really tempted to play a binder in Essentials, simply to see if they're as bad as people say.

I'm also curious if the binder would stand out as being bad in a purely Essentials environment. Assuming access to HotFL/HotFK/HoS and relevant Dragon articles only, are they obviously worse controllers than mages or hunters?

Eliminating non-E classes would at least remove the warlock as a "Binder+" option, but they still are still behind the mage. Mage has the versatility to pick what kind of control effects they want, and has tons of good options in those choices. By comparison, the hunter has a very solid collection of at-will (and encounter) control effects. The binder does have a very specific schtick (locking opponent's out of the fight with immobilization and/or blocking their view). I'm not convinced they actually pull that goal off well in practice. Outside of maybe slaughtering some minions, they aren't likely to get their pact boon because they need to kill it or be adjacent when it dies, but unlike the hexblade, they don't want to be adjacent to their enemies.

 

[Terramotus]

1) Essentials is the core of the game. Just look at the flavor text in the themes articles if you don't believe it. I didn't see any mention of a single non-Essentials class in there. Any and all published framework-building will be on the Essentials chassis.

This makes me so, so sad. I enjoy buying new books, getting new goodies for my games. I like 4e better than 3e by far, but I loathe Essentials, as I feel it goes backwards in a negative direction. My favorite edition got orphaned only 2 years into its cycle.

I haven't bought a WotC book in over a year, and I probably won't be buying anything else unless we see some O4E content. And not just scraps - if it's there in Essentials format, it needs to be presented in O4E format.

Sadly, I know that probably won't happen. I don't want to go to Pathfinder, WotC policies killed most third party support, and I don't think I even trust them enough to try out a 5E at this point.

I don't mean to threadcrap. It's just that I've been away from these boards since Essentials, running other systems, and I came back hoping things have changed, and I'm sorely disappointed.

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

This makes me so, so sad. I enjoy buying new books, getting new goodies for my games. I like 4e better than 3e by far, but I loathe Essentials, as I feel it goes backwards in a negative direction. My favorite edition got orphaned only 2 years into its cycle.

I haven't bought a WotC book in over a year, and I probably won't be buying anything else unless we see some O4E content. And not just scraps - if it's there in Essentials format, it needs to be presented in O4E format.

Sadly, I know that probably won't happen. I don't want to go to Pathfinder, WotC policies killed most third party support, and I don't think I even trust them enough to try out a 5E at this point.

I don't mean to threadcrap. It's just that I've been away from these boards since Essentials, running other systems, and I came back hoping things have changed, and I'm sorely disappointed.

I just feel completely flabbergasted when I read stuff like this. Granted, I'm a DM, so the changes in Essentials haven't really affected me, but when I read for example the druid subclass (sentinal) in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, it just feels so much richer thematically. When I opened the original 4E player's handbook and was greeted by the Wall of Never-Ending Powers, it almost killed my enthusiasm for the game. When I open Heroes of the Fallen Lands (and forgotten kingdoms), I get inspired. The abilities have more traction, its not just "2W + Int damage, slide 1 square", now its also "choose one wilderness knack", or speak with animals at level x, etc. The slayer class is also a godsend, because now there is a class I can give to players who are either extremely unexperienced or are not interested in having five pages of powers to keep track of. The new direction in design has move 4E in the right direction, IMHO. The only thing left to fix - and this is the big one - is the long, long, long time it takes to run combats. Fix that, and 4E is my ideal (high-fantasy) RPG.

 

[noodle fish mice]

I just feel completely flabbergasted when I read stuff like this. Granted, I'm a DM, so the changes in Essentials haven't really affected me, but when I read for example the druid subclass (sentinal) in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, it just feels so much richer thematically. When I opened the original 4E player's handbook and was greeted by the Wall of Never-Ending Powers, it almost killed my enthusiasm for the game. When I open Heroes of the Fallen Lands (and forgotten kingdoms), I get inspired. The abilities have more traction, its not just "2W + Int damage, slide 1 square", now its also "choose one wilderness knack", or speak with animals at level x, etc. The slayer class is also a godsend, because now there is a class I can give to players who are either extremely unexperienced or are not interested in having five pages of powers to keep track of. The new direction in design has move 4E in the right direction, IMHO. The only thing left to fix - and this is the big one - is the long, long, long time it takes to run combats. Fix that, and 4E is my ideal (high-fantasy) RPG.

I'm glad some people are happy with Essentials. Heck, I like a fair amount of the new class builds myself. I don't want Essentials to go away - I just want them to give me the old style of content, too, because I vastly prefer it.

We can all have what we want, but WotC seems determined to please half of us and flip the bird at everyone else.

 

[Klaus]

I'm glad some people are happy with Essentials. Heck, I like a fair amount of the new class builds myself. I don't want Essentials to go away - I just want them to give me the old style of content, too, because I vastly prefer it.

We can all have what we want, but WotC seems determined to please half of us and flip the bird at everyone else.

By "old style", do you mean "stuff for the PHB classes", or "PHB page layout"?

 

[Nullzone]

We can all have what we want, but WotC seems determined to please half of us and flip the bird at everyone else.

No, see, that's the thing -- the fact that they designed something you don't like doesn't mean they flipped the bird at you. It means "We're trying something new, let us know how you like it."

Do you take it as a personal affront when all the news on TV isn't exciting or relevant to you as well?

And before someone else says it, it also doesn't mean that they're never again designing a product to support your preference. Heroes of Shadow does a lot to support the shadow theme and it delivers content for essentials and non-essentials alike (and no, HoS is not an Essentials book. "Heroes of X" does not mean Essentials). The theme articles make incredible strides at support for everybody across the board.


You're right, they can't please everyone all the time. The people who aren't pleased at a given moment need to realize that, sit the frack down, and have some tolerance. Just because you didn't get a new shiny at the same time as someone else doesn't mean your old toys are now useless. Most people learned this by about age 6.


I'll say it again so we're clear: The presence or design initiative for Essentials does not in any way invalidate the PHB or any core rulebook. They are all 100% rules-legal player resources, and I cannot fathom for the life of me where people get this ludicrous idea that Essentials has somehow broken the game or made it impossible to have fun anymore, especially in a game where the rules are what you make of them.

 

[noodle fish mice]

No, see, that's the thing -- the fact that they designed something you don't like doesn't mean they flipped the bird at you. It means "We're trying something new, let us know how you like it."

Do you take it as a personal affront when all the news on TV isn't exciting or relevant to you as well?

And before someone else says it, it also doesn't mean that they're never again designing a product to support your preference. Heroes of Shadow does a lot to support the shadow theme and it delivers content for essentials and non-essentials alike (and no, HoS is not an Essentials book. "Heroes of X" does not mean Essentials). The theme articles make incredible strides at support for everybody across the board.

You're right, they can't please everyone all the time. The people who aren't pleased at a given moment need to realize that, sit the frack down, and have some tolerance. Just because you didn't get a new shiny at the same time as someone else doesn't mean your old toys are now useless. Most people learned this by about age 6.

I'll say it again so we're clear: The presence or design initiative for Essentials does not in any way invalidate the PHB or any core rulebook. They are all 100% rules-legal player resources, and I cannot fathom for the life of me where people get this ludicrous idea that Essentials has somehow broken the game or made it impossible to have fun anymore, especially in a game where the rules are what you make of them.

You're putting words in my mouth. I said I was HAPPY that people like Essentials, and that I even like some of its contributions to the game. I have never believed that Essentials is "invalidating" my older books. Some people might, but I don't. I'm mostly concerned that Essentials is the shape of the game from now on - I'm concerned that it's invalidating my future books.

And, yes, I know they've said they're going to provide material of the original style in the future. I hope they do, but I'll believe it when I see it. Promises get broken. People learn that by age 6, too.

 

[Nullzone]

You're putting words in my mouth. I said I was HAPPY that people like Essentials, and that I even like some of its contributions to the game. I have never believed that Essentials is "invalidating" my older books. Some people might, but I don't. I'm mostly concerned that Essentials is the shape of the game from now on - I'm concerned that it's invalidating my future books.

And, yes, I know they've said they're going to provide material of the original style in the future. I hope they do, but I'll believe it when I see it. Promises get broken. People learn that by age 6, too.

Sorry, I got a little soapboxy there. Only my first bit about flipping the bird was really directed at your post, the rest was an open statement about the overall Essentials irrationality.

 

[noodle fish mice]

Sorry, I got a little soapboxy there. Only my first bit about flipping the bird was really directed at your post, the rest was an open statement about the overall Essentials irrationality.

It's all good. I shouldn't have said they were flipping the bird in the first place, as it was inflammatory and I also don't actually envision the employees of WotC sitting in their offices, plotting against us. I need to stop posting grumpy things before I've had my coffee.