Herores of the Fallen Lands - Are Slayers underpowered?

[S'mon]

I like the idea of the Fighter-Slayer, but the execution seems lacking. I'm not seeing anything to compare with the Fighter-Knight's lockdown abilities, or the Rogue-Thief's sneak attack. And they seem to be a W-shaped class, needing STR, DEX and CON all high. Am I missing something? If not I'm tempted to houserule them a damage bonus.

 

[tiornys]

The Slayer gets this:

HEROIC SLAYER
You gain a bonus to the damage rolls of weapon attacks. The bonus equals your Dexterity modifier.

and it also has access to stances that give it bonus damage, especially Battle Wrath. Combined with Berserker's Charge, Slayers do damage juuuuuuust fine.

I haven't seen anyone who's played the class or seen one played complain about their damage level. Their nova capability is lacking, and they're simplistic to build and can be simplistic in play, but I'm not aware of any balance problems with the class.

t~

 

[S'mon]

The DEX bonus to damage is going to be what, +2? Unless they nerf STR. Seems unimpressive to me; Thieves get that +2 & CA +2d6 on top. I'll check the stances out again but they didn't initially seem much better than the Knight's for DPR.

 

[Lord Ernie]

The DEX bonus to damage is going to be what, +2? Unless they nerf STR. Seems unimpressive to me; Thieves get that +2 & CA +2d6 on top. I'll check the stances out again but they didn't initially seem much better than the Knight's for DPR.

Check out the Charop forums if you want ideas on how to optimize Slayers (protip: use a Gouge and Reserve maneuver). See here for more information.

In all seriousness, Thieves don't wield giant two-handers. They are also quite a bit more fragile - do remember that Slayers keep the fighter armor proficiencies, hitpoints, and surges.

A well-built and similarly equipped slayer is going to be doing solid, striker-level damage.

 

[Enaloindir]

A Slayer might be a bit one-dimensional (no special tricks), but he deals damage just fine.

 

[Styracosaurus]

Slayer gains Dex mod to damage and it increases +2 every few levels to a max of +8 at epic levels.

Slayer is subpar if......
1) Monsters never generate Opportunity attacks.
2) You only have one or two encounters in a session.
3) You fight a solo and the Slayer does not have the special stance vs. an isolated creature.
4) Your party always takes extended rests between fights.

Slayer is way better if.....
1) You have a couple of Warlords that grant extra basic attacks.
2) Your party has more encounters than daily attacks.
3) You love jumping in the middle of trouble.

The Slayer is fun because you charge into the middle of the pile and don't really worry about strategy as much. You defend by soaking up attacks and presenting a nice target and forcing the enemy to protect against you. The Slayer has good AC, decent HP, movement powers and the need to go after the squishy enemies.

Another benefit:
The PHB Fighter is not a very good archer. The Slayer should have decent Dex (16) and applies his Dex mod twice to damage, even a ranger would notice a Slayer with a bow.

 

[Obryn]

The DEX bonus to damage is going to be what, +2? Unless they nerf STR. Seems unimpressive to me; Thieves get that +2 & CA +2d6 on top. I'll check the stances out again but they didn't initially seem much better than the Knight's for DPR.

Ideally, they should be 18/18 or 20/16 STR/DEX - and I'd lean towards the former. Either way is a +8 damage bonus on top of their big, nasty weapon, their respectable AC, and their pretty impressive Stances.

-O

 

[Klaus]

The slayer has more staying power than a rogue. A half-orc makes a perfect slayer, with the racial power complementing Power Strike. You could start with a 19/15 and get 20/16 by 4th level.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

If you are truly worried about Constitution, and don't mind starting with mechanics and building from there, you can start with pre-racial Dex 18 / Con 14 / Wis 11 (or similar), take Melee Training (Dexterity), and pump Dex and Con thereafter. Damage will be slightly lower (3 less at level 30 relative to a Str 16 / Dex 16 or Str 18 / Dex 14 build) but will apply equally to ranged attacks. Skill Focus (Athletics), Agile Athlete, and magic items can make up for the poor Athletics skill that results from not pushing Strength. Sadly, Heavy Blade Mastery will be out of reach.

The above build will be very consistent and adaptable -- note that the Slayer can swap weapons as a minor action, so switching between Fullblade and Greatbow is easy. For melee, which should still be the main focus, charging is an excellent option; if you can find ways to make charging safer (Badge of the Berserker, etc.) or more powerful (Vanguard Weapon, Horned Helm, etc.) you will be glad.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The DEX bonus to damage is going to be what, +2? Unless they nerf STR. Seems unimpressive to me; Thieves get that +2 & CA +2d6 on top. I'll check the stances out again but they didn't initially seem much better than the Knight's for DPR.

I'd expect +3 for many slayers. And the stances are at least a further +2. The weapon difference is worth about a further +d4 damage. By this point we're into the realm of 3+d4 vs 2d6. Yes, the thief still wins the damage stakes. But the thief is incredibly vulnerable to being knocked prone or dazed - at which point they can no longer use a move action and hence a trick and so are much less likely to have combat advantage, dropping their damage to leader level. Also the slayer has a lot of hit points - melee rogues are the single most likely to die class in the game, whereas the slayer can wear scale and stand on the battleline as a less sticky tank.

Edit: See also the comment about the thief being overpowered. Rogues have in 4e always been strong at first level due to the power of sneak attack.