Hexhammer (ZE GOGGLES ZEY DO NOTHING)

[DracoSuave]

Property: When you hit a target affected by your Warlock’s
Curse with this weapon, you deal your extra curse damage
against that target.

Alright. How the hell does this work? Now, before you say 'You add in your damage' do understand that you would -anyways- as Warlock's Curse is already agnostic to the source of the damage to the enemy. And because you only do your curse damage once per round, it doesn't allow for doubling up.

In other words, the property of the weapon is to let you do something you'd already be allowed to do anyways.

ZE GOGGLES! ZEY DO NOTHING!

 

[Hypersmurf]

And because you only do your curse damage once per round, it doesn't allow for doubling up.

The way I read it, it doesn't allow for doubling up on any given attack... but it does allow you to deal curse damage more than once per round.

Let's say you hit three cursed opponents in a round with your hammer.

First opponent - can you deal Curse damage? Yes, for two reasons - the class feature and the hammer property. Can you deal double Curse damage? No - you are given the opportunity to apply your curse damage for two reasons, not to apply it twice.

Second and third opponents - can you deal Curse damage? The class feature won't let you, because you've already used it once this round. The hammer still triggers, though, because you're hitting a target affected by your curse.

I read it as a little like the 3.5 feat that permitted sneak attack damage when you rolled a critical hit. "What if you crit while you're flanking?" people asked. "Do you deal sneak attack damage twice?" No - you deal it once, for two different reasons.

I can follow an argument that says "The property does nothing, because the Warlock is limited to dealing curse damage once per round!" But I don't agree that that's what the hammer does.

-Hyp.

 

[chitzk0i]

Let's say you hit three cursed opponents in a round with your hammer.

But how often does that happen? You don't have to build your character around most magic items.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But how often does that happen?

I think that's kind of the point.

A Headband with "Property: You are not limited to dealing curse damage once per round" would be overpowered. But "You are not limited to dealing curse damage once per round as long as you're using Weapon powers" isn't, because a warlock doesn't do a lot of Weaponing.

-Hyp.

 

[Nail]

In other words, the property of the weapon is to let you do something you'd already be allowed to do anyways.

ZE GOGGLES! ZEY DO NOTHING!

Unhelpful, but:

DracoSuave: excellent thread title, sir!

 

[MrMyth]

From what I can tell, there are three possible interpretations of this ability:

(1) This goal of this ability was to let you deal your Curse damage with melee attacks! Which... you could already do, and the writer of this item simply didn't realize, and thus, the ability has no actual effect.

(2) When you hit your target with this weapon, you deal your Curse damage, entirely outside of the normal application of that damage. Which means you could deal double Curse damage if you choose to apply your normal Curse damage in addition to the Pact Hammer Curse damage that triggers when you hit. Given the complexity somewhat needed for this line of thought, along with how way too powerful it seems to be, I'm less inclined to go with this idea - but some think this is how it works.

(3) When you hit with the Pact Hammer, you can deal your Curse damage, even if you have already applied your Curse damage that round. This doesn't mean you can apply it twice over - it is simply opening up a restriction on the Curse damage usage, not providing an entirely seperate method of using it. Hypersmurf gives a good explanation of how this works.

I favor (3) as the interpretatio, since (1) is useless and (2) is way too powerful. Some feel that (3) might be useless as well, but I can see a variety of ways for it to trigger:

1) You blast an enemy with some power that makes them not want to attack you (Eyebite, Hellish Rebuke), or have a damaging aura around you (Armor of Agathys). After hitting the enemy on your turn (and dealing curse damage), they don't want to stay near you - and move away, provoking Opportunity Attacks on which you can apply your Curse damage.

2) On your turn, you blast the enemy, dealing Curse damage. On the Warlord's turn, he uses a power to let you take a free basic attack - on which you can apply your Curse damage when you swing with the Pact Hammer.

3) On your turn, you blast someone, dealing Curse damage. Then you Action Point, and walk up and hit them - dealing Curse damage due to the Pact Hammer.

4) You are using a power that lets you make attacks in later rounds by sustaining it with a minor action (Hunger of Hadar, Summons of Khirad, Tendrils of Thuban, etc.) At the start of your turn, you sustain the attack, and deal Curse damage when you hit. Then you walk up to the enemy and hit them with your Pact Hammer, thus dealing Curse damage again.

I mean, these aren't common situations, but they certainly exist. They are likely to come up occasionally on their own, and even more often if you actively work towards setting them up. That seems more than a reasonable ability for a weapon that is already pretty awesome to start with!

 

[DracoSuave]

The way I read it, it doesn't allow for doubling up on any given attack... but it does allow you to deal curse damage more than once per round.

Let's say you hit three cursed opponents in a round with your hammer.

First opponent - can you deal Curse damage? Yes, for two reasons - the class feature and the hammer property. Can you deal double Curse damage? No - you are given the opportunity to apply your curse damage for two reasons, not to apply it twice.

Second and third opponents - can you deal Curse damage? The class feature won't let you, because you've already used it once this round. The hammer still triggers, though, because you're hitting a target affected by your curse.

I read it as a little like the 3.5 feat that permitted sneak attack damage when you rolled a critical hit. "What if you crit while you're flanking?" people asked. "Do you deal sneak attack damage twice?" No - you deal it once, for two different reasons.

I can follow an argument that says "The property does nothing, because the Warlock is limited to dealing curse damage once per round!" But I don't agree that that's what the hammer does.

-Hyp.

The problem is that the class feature explicitly -forbids- you from getting it more than once per round, and the hexhammer does not permit you from breaking any restrictions.

You can deal this extra damage once per round, so if you have dealt Warlock’s Curse damage since the start of your turn, you cannot deal it again until the start of your next turn.

That's saying two things, one, that you can apply the damage, and two, that you -cannot- apply it again.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The problem is that the class feature explicitly -forbids- you from getting it more than once per round, and the hexhammer does not permit you from breaking any restrictions.

I can follow an argument that says "The property does nothing, because the Warlock is limited to dealing curse damage once per round!" But I don't agree that that's what the hammer does.

-Hyp.

 

[essenbee]

The problem is that the class feature explicitly -forbids- you from getting it more than once per round, and the hexhammer does not permit you from breaking any restrictions.



That's saying two things, one, that you can apply the damage, and two, that you -cannot- apply it again.

Three words: Exception-based design.

 

[DracoSuave]

Three words: Exception-based design.

Smarmy Retort: The property does not dictate an exception, however. It simply states you're allowed to do the damage. If it had intended to be 'used on a second attack' then under exception-based design it'd -state- it.