High Level Enemies: Epic or Near Epic?

[delericho]

I usually use a homebrewed setting. I don't stat up opponents unless I need them. Consequently, most of the "big bads" in my world don't have a fixed CR.

However, I also find that my games don't reach Epic levels, largely because by the time the group is into their mid-teens we're ready for a new campaign anyway. That being the case, stats for any creature over about CR 25 are meaningless to me, since I can never use them.

So, any creature that the greatest heroes of the world can hope to bring down is no higher than CR 25. Any opponent that even the greatest heroes cannot bring down doesn't have stats - if the PCs were to come up against such a creature I would just handwave it. (My homebrew doesn't have stats for gods for this reason - it is nonsensical to think you could out-fight the God of Battles IMC.)

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I usually use a homebrewed setting. I don't stat up opponents unless I need them. Consequently, most of the "big bads" in my world don't have a fixed CR.

IME you can be hurt by this DMing strategy. If the PCs fight the BBEG, you'll need stats, even if you came up with them in three minutes. ("Okay, AC 47 sounds good", etc.) When working with BBEGs, I always try to give them a "cabinet" - a group of NPCs, at least some of whom can fight (it's easy to build a non-combative NPC in D20 Modern), so the NPC doesn't have to take on the PCs on their own.

For DnD, a very simple cabinet might be "BBEG" (sorcerer with high Int - that gives him the smarts and charisma to be a leader - there's a reason the BBEG is very frequently a mage), high priest, assassin and spy (high-level rogue with lots of Bluff and Disguise), chief bodyguard, weird fighter (uses orc double axe, spiked chain, or some other weird weapon and unexpected tactics) and archer (fairly obvious). Obviously they would have personalities and maybe schticks (or however you spell that).

Now you need to quickly sketch out defensive details of their fortress, inn room, or whatever.

Now, coming up with spells, save DCs, hp and other such stats (even quickly) would take some time. Even if I weren't going to totally stat them up, I'd have them written on a piece of paper in my campaign notes, and update the numbers slowly as the PCs gain levels.

Needless to say, this strategy has its own weaknesses. You need to create stats for multiple NPCs to support the main one pretty much every time an important combat occurs.

 

[delericho]

IME you can be hurt by this DMing strategy. If the PCs fight the BBEG, you'll need stats, even if you came up with them in three minutes.

Oh, of course. If the PCs are going to fight one of the BBEGs, I'll stat them up. But I don't stat them up when creating the world itself, only when creating the adventure in which the PCs are going to go up against them. (And thus far I've never hit a situation where the PCs go after the BBEG unexpectedly, although I confess it is possible.)

The exception are the 'untouchable' bad guys. These are the guys who are so bad that no mortal hero can ever stand against them. Those guys don't get stats; if the PCs are determined to force the issue, they die. But I don't make a habit of using such opponents, as doing so would be hugely unfair. (To date, the only such BBEGs in my game are gods, and the gods are not interested in physical confrontation with mortals either. Contesting with a god is more a matter of taking a philosophical stance against it and trying to thwart its aims rather than slaying the creature in combat. If I were doing a campaign in the style of the Trojan War, I would of course handle the gods differently.)