High-Tech Forces vs. High-Magic Forces

[wingsandsword]

Depends on the machine gun. The stuff carried by infantry or mounted on most land vehicles? You may be right.

The ones mounted on planes designed for dogfighting? It's a tossup.

The ones the AF & Army mount on tankbusting A-10s and certain helicopters? They'd penetrate, no doubt.

Hence why I said sniper rifle. They aren't going to know instantly that it's nigh invulnerable. Attempting to kill the LeShay would start with small arms like a sniper attack, or a small-unit raid by an elite group like a SEAL team, and escalate up when they find that small arms can at most scuff his skin.

Skills are not magic, though. Even though the LeShay is more convincing a rhetorician than Hitler*Jim Jones, he cannot convince everyone hostile to him to be in his BFF army. And even those he convinces utterly are NOT mind controlled. Some will see through his charade and act. Some may even act against the LeShay even though they are "friendly", just because he's "corrupting everything" he thought the creature stood for.

Humans are very good at killing those they love...and retaining that love even after the killing has been done.

Yes, it's not magic, but they can do a LOT. +71 to Diplomacy and Bluff would make somebody the best speaker in human history. I'd tried to avoid the Hitler example, but it works quite well, and he probably only had half that bonus to the skill. It wouldn't work on everybody, but it would work on most people, and would make attempting to take him down by the people who oppose him be more like a resistance movement than a war.

A DC 53 Charm Monster gaze effect (Caster Level 50) continuously active to anybody within 30 feet that meets its gaze however, is magic.

Like I said upthread, what scenario is deemed "dire" enough depends upon the awareness of the military commanders assessing the scenario.

At least in the United States, military commanders have no authority to launch nuclear weapons. Thanks to permissive action links, they cannot arm and launch a nuclear weapon without those codes. The authority to launch nuclear weapons is initiated by the President, and confirmed by the Secretary of Defense, then the codes are transmitted to the actual units. Without those codes, the weapons are not going off, not even tactical weapons are going to be armed without those codes. It's not like in Dr. Strangelove where a rogue General can order an attack, it hasn't been like that for several decades (although the USAF strongly resisted putting lock codes on weapons, saying it was insulting to their professionalism to imply that they might launch without orders). General Douglas MacArthur's illustrious career was ended in the Korean War when he demanded to drop nuclear weapons on China against the orders of President Truman.

Thus, if the POTUS, or even just the SECDEF is on the side of the LeShay, the US nuclear arsenal is completely out of the fight, no matter how many Generals want to attack. They could use chemical or biological weapons. . .except it's completely immune to poisons and diseases. I don't know the launch authorization processes for other countries, but again, releasing a nuclear weapon in this scenario will likely start WW III.

 

[TanisFrey]

Probably more inspired by Napoleonic armies.

The knight certainly trained longer than conscripts, but his real counterpart in modern warfare are special ops units, like Delta Force or Navy Seals, if we're talking about years of training and experience.

Even in his day, the knight was eventually bested by the development of pikemen and gunmen formations employed by 'less well trained' troops. It's not as much about the years of training but the 'state of war-tech.'

Peasant Levies were used at times. Medieval commanders did prefer to use real soldiers when they could be had. A friend likes to quote a report of a battle between two barons in Medieval England, they reported to the king a loss of 4 knight on one side and something like 6 on the other. The church objects to the fact that nigher side reports the 2-3 hundred peasant who died.

Medieval commanders did summon peasant levies to back up an army or as a way to tax the nobles. The English crown goes to war to defend its Norman holdings from France. The crown call for peasant levies. Those levies in Normandy would help fight, those levies in England would report to their noble lord and receive a small amount of coin and send some of that coin to the crown which would use the tax to hire a real army to do the fighting.

If I had to give 3.x levels to troops:
Magic using:
Peasant levies: commoner 1 - 3 (a small number will have multi classed with a 1-2 levels of warrior if there is a lot conflicts between lesser nobles in the area)
Soldiers/Guard Warrior: 1 - 5
Squire: Fighter 1-4
Knight: Fighter 5+

Modern: (for out of basic and their first Advanced school for US/Western troops)
Non-western Troop: warrior 1-7
US/Western support troops: Warrior 2 plus Expert 2
US Infantry: Fighter 4 with weapon focus M-16
Western Infantry: Fighter 2-4
Special Forces: Fighter 5-10+

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A DC 53 Charm Monster gaze effect (Caster Level 50) continuously active to anybody within 30 feet that meets its gaze however, is magic.

And you've pointed out it's main limitations: short range and meeting its gaze. In our wired world, those conditions may be hard to meet.

Odds are good that access to sensitive persons- POTUS and other world leaders- would be barred by the personnel in the monitoring stations who can lock & unlock doors. (Yes, I know he can teleport, but he might not have the neccessary info to scry properly...)

I mean, SOMEBODY out there will be at least as smart as Odysseus (or smarter, and not risk their own life and eschew his own advice) and prevent significant forces from being subject to its Charm.

At least in the United States, military commanders have no authority to launch nuclear weapons. <snip>

1) That assumes the LeaShay manages to control POTUS before the codes are either transmitted or passed down to the VP or whomever is next available in the chain of succession amidst the conflict (I know the progression, but I'm making no assumptions about who has been compromised).

2) if nukes were the final viable option and POTUS had been compromised before transmitting or passing the codes, you can bet that someone would contact the other nuclear powers. The odds of the LeShay having simultaneously disabled the nuclear option for ALL of the world's nuclear powers- known and unknown- is pretty slim.

I have no doubt someone out there would decide it's better to make the USA glow in the dark than let the LeShay take over the world.

 

[pippenainteasy]

I wonder how Abeir-Toril would handle a Reaper invasion...

 

[Derren]

I wonder how Abeir-Toril would handle a Reaper invasion...

Rust monsters. Lots and lots of rust monsters.

 

[Hussar]

I had to admit, this:

US Infantry: Fighter 4 with weapon focus M-16
Western Infantry: Fighter 2-4

made me giggle just a bit.

 

[pippenainteasy]

Rust monsters. Lots and lots of rust monsters.

Gotta take down those shields first

 

[TanisFrey]

I had to admit, this:



made me giggle just a bit.

A lot of countries are tiring to martian a technology parity with the US but are cutting weapon stockpiles to save $$. If you do not have extra bullets/missiles/bomb your soldiers do not train as much at the US military.

Look at what happened in Libya last year. NATO forces were running out of bomb forcing the US to step back up to the major combat role at the end of the air campaign.

 

[Nellisir]

And you've pointed out it's main limitations: short range and meeting its gaze. In our wired world, those conditions may be hard to meet.

Odds are good that access to sensitive persons- POTUS and other world leaders- would be barred by the personnel in the monitoring stations who can lock & unlock doors. (Yes, I know he can teleport, but he might not have the neccessary info to scry properly...)

I missed the entire first 95% of this conversation, but if the LeShay (whose stats I do not know) can teleport essentially at will, charm 99% of the people within a 30' radius, and can use knock at will...what's a locked door going to do? Won't he just open it? Heck, he can break into the Kremlin and the White House simultaneously. And whatever China has. I don't think they keep anti-tank weapons in bunkers, and presumably he can take some small-arms fire long enough to get in the door and work his mojo. And if he can look like anyone, why on earth would people shoot the president's wife? Or the PM of Britain? Or Secret Service Agent B?

 

[Hussar]

I'd also point out that with Epic level skill use, you can perform acts which are mostly magical - well extraordinary, so they work in an anti-magic field. Charm Monster makes a target friendly. His +70 Diplomacy score makes them fanatical and willing to sacrifice themselves for him, forever, with no duration.

All he really needs to do is start walking through crowded cities to cause enough disruption and then teleport away. Even the best prepared military response in the world cannot respond that fast.