High-Tech Forces vs. High-Magic Forces

[pippenainteasy]

Lol this went from "high tech forces vs magic forces" to "magic spies vs Obama"

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

..what's a locked door going to do?

A security door that is controlled by someone not actually standing where he is, but is instead controlled by someone at a control center? It will stop him until he can scrye behind it.

Heck, he can break into the Kremlin and the White House simultaneously.

Are they really capable of bilocation or are you exaggerating?

And if he can look like anyone, why on earth would people shoot the president's wife? Or the PM of Britain? Or Secret Service Agent B?

They might if he doesn't have proper ID- passwords, magnetic cards, RFID, biometrics* or whatever is required at the place he's trying to access. He may LOOK like the person, but appearance alone won't get you in.








* this one depends on the actual power of the magic involved- as in, is the mimicry so good as to reproduce fingerprints, voice scans, retinal scans, etc.? Any or all of which may be used depending on the security of he facility in question.

 

[Nellisir]

A security door that is controlled by someone not actually standing where he is, but is instead controlled by someone at a control center? It will stop him until he can scrye behind it.

So why can't he knock the door open?

I just checked some stats: apparently he has "greater" teleport, so there's no chance of error and he only needs a "reliable" description.

Are they really capable of bilocation or are you exaggerating?

Slight exageration. I mean, if he can teleport back and forth 10 times a minute, it's not bilocation, but it's close.

They might if he doesn't have proper ID- passwords, magnetic cards, RFID, biometrics* or whatever is required at the place he's trying to access. He may LOOK like the person, but appearance alone won't get you in.

No, but two minutes with the person will get you everything but the biometrics (and I'm not sure about that either), given their charm capabilities. Supply closet. Bathroom. Never mind a leshay that plans ahead and shows up at your house for a sleepover.

POTUS isn't in a bunker 24/7 for four years, and the leshay doesn't -look- like a threat. That's the whole point. It's a total stealth operator. He walks in as a tourist. A quick chat with the guide, and he's shaking hands with a Secret Service agent, who introduces him to his superior as a favor. A little smile, nod of the head, and one of the top secret service agents is arranging for him to meet the president for a moment, while POTUS is walking from one photo-op to another. That's without even shapechanging (beyond the tourist shape), knock, teleportation, greater invisibility, or anything else this thing has.

 

[Nellisir]

What you don't understand is, the LeShay are already here.

And there's one behind you now.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So why can't he knock the door open?

It depends on the door.

SRD
...Knock does not raise barred gates or similar impediments (such as a portcullis)...

Many doorways into secured areas probably would be considered to be modern portcullises.

Some would also work much like airlocks- you open the outer door, pass through, then wait until the first one closes and locks before the inner door is even unlockable.

I just checked some stats: apparently he has "greater" teleport, so there's no chance of error and he only needs a "reliable" description.

From past experience, I know that some secure locations, only persons over a certain clearance ever see the area beyond a certain point. In many cases, the outermost guards don't have that clearance. So, unless he's lucky and arrives at jussssst the right time, he won't be able to get that "reliable" description without doing a little investigation.

POTUS isn't in a bunker 24/7 for four years, and the leshay doesn't -look- like a threat. That's the whole point. It's a total stealth operator. He walks in as a tourist. A quick chat with the guide, and he's shaking hands with a Secret Service agent, who introduces him to his superior as a favor. A little smile, nod of the head, and one of the top secret service agents is arranging for him to meet the president for a moment, while POTUS is walking from one photo-op to another.

That's true, he's not.

But even so, a breach of the sort you describe is unlikely unless the LeShay is actually receiving visitors. Someone getting the invader back at the wrong time may just get himself shot at. Secret Service does NOT mess around- I've met a few who were just this side of psychos- they don't shoot to wound and they have some interesting ordinance at their disposal.

Far, far better that he meet the POTUS at an event as the "plus 1" of a big campaign contributor.

Look, my point isn't that the scenario is impossible, just that there are enough ways things can go wrong that the outcome is not a given. As a "Lone Gunman", the LeShay cannot really afford to make too many mistakes, even though its powers are formidable*, because the nature of what we have at OUR disposal is both powerful AND alien to it.

Simply not understanding or accepting that a single weapon located in another country or somewhere under the sea could be fatal. If he thinks Tomahawk when the speaker is talking about a Tomahawk he may, in the words of Dave Mustaine, "wake up dead."

Even assuming he does take over the world, he can't rest on his laurels. There are IEDs in the world as powerful as some military ordinance, and "The Resistance" would probably not shy away from using them. A classic: a shaped charge was used to deform and launch a thick plate of copper at a heavily armored car in an assassination about a decade ago- the blast made the plate into a heavy, near molten airfoil that traveled at hypersonic speed into the car's side, sending the car flying sideways through the air in multiple burning pieces. (There was also a banker killed in similar fashion.)

Why did it work? Becsuse the leader in question was so confident in his safety that he never varied from his routine paths on official business. They knew where he would be at that time right down to the minute.











* assuming, of course, magic works.

 

[Hussar]

Why would the Le Shay even bother with the president?

He has a gaze charm effect out to 30 feet. And a diplomacy of +77. That means that anyone he has charmed is, the next round (even the -10 on the check for doing it in one round is still an autosucceed), forever a fanatical follower of his to the point where they are willing to sacrifice their own lives for him. This is a non-magical effect. Heck, anyone that can hear him might be affected, but, 95% of people within 30 feet of him are automatically affected.

So, if he's smart, he walks down major streets in large urban centers for ten minutes, teleports to the next city and repeats. Thousands of fanantical followers are created virtually instantly in every urban center on the planet. Nuclear attack? Nuke who? He's miles gone every ten minutes. You'd have to be willing to destroy your own cities to pull that off.

Talk about the zombie appocolypse. And, the worst part is, once he's visited the major urban centers, all he has to do is repeat. Start going through major urban centers again and create thousands more followers. No modern government could survive revolt of tens of thousands of its own people starting within a week.

When he's done, he picks up the pieces and crowns himself king.

Heck, DC 50 Bluff check (he's got +77) allows him to instill a Suggestion on anyone that can hear him. Imagine the damage he could do with a radio transmitter. Or, teleport onto a live broadcast stage. Now his Diplomacy reaches millions of people. Imagine the effect of teleporting into a live showing of the Super Bowl and talking for 6 seconds. A 77, (average check with the -10 for hurrying) means everyone listening is now helpful. Even those that started out hostile are now helpful.

In six seconds.

 

[Nellisir]

Look, my point isn't that the scenario is impossible, just that there are enough ways things can go wrong that the outcome is not a given.

And my point isn't that it's unstoppable, just that the chance of actually stopping it is...well, pretty tiny, actually. Shooting it won't stop it. It's fast enough to overrun a shooter in a few seconds, and every time it rounds a corner it's a different face.
So you need a certain clearance to clean the bunker bathrooms? So what? That janitor has a life. She has an apartment, a family, goes to the movies, buys groceries. And in six seconds she'll tell the leshay everything it wants to know.

Even assuming he does take over the world, he can't rest on his laurels. There are IEDs in the world as powerful as some military ordinance, and "The Resistance" would probably not shy away from using them. A classic: a shaped charge was used to deform and launch a thick plate of copper at a heavily armored car in an assassination about a decade ago- the blast made the plate into a heavy, near molten airfoil that traveled at hypersonic speed into the car's side, sending the car flying sideways through the air in multiple burning pieces. (There was also a banker killed in similar fashion.)

Why did it work? Becsuse the leader in question was so confident in his safety that he never varied from his routine paths on official business. They knew where he would be at that time right down to the minute.

I think we can assume that almost everyone who has been assassinated didn't mean to be, and that a mistake was made in protection, surveillance, or procedure.

It sounds just like a Hollywood movie:a few valiant defenders with inappropriately large ordinance, triggerhappy reflexes, and a good ol' nuclear deus ex machina succeed in holding off the end of the world. I'd go see it.

 

[Nellisir]

Why would the Le Shay even bother with the president?

I wouldn't.

 

[Nifft]

Lol this went from "high tech forces vs magic forces" to "magic spies vs Obama"

Magic has an overwhelming upper hand in asymmetric warfare. So, that's where the smart magic forces would seize victory.

Dumb magic forces would probably die horribly on the battlefield.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Shooting it won't stop it.

Again, depends on what you shoot it with.

So what? That janitor has a life. She has an apartment, a family, goes to the movies, buys groceries. And in six seconds she'll tell the leshay everything it wants to know.

And a security clearance of her own, meaning her ID as a janitor in a top-secret installation is not a matter of common knowledge or even easily accessible through government records. For example, McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas has the "Janet" terminal...so far, nobody (that I can think of) has been revealed as an employee who worked there.

Yes, he could figure it out given time. But there are better and easier ways around it, at least in the short run, such as the "plus one" scenario I pointed out above.

The question is which options he considers and ultimately decide to go with? How good is he at assessing the nature and Pros & Cons of his options in this alien world?

You'd have to be willing to destroy your own cities to pull that off.

1) If you think there aren't people who are willing to do this, you're kidding yourself.

2) There are those out there who would be willing to do the job for you in order to preserve their own countries, and their odds of might success actually INCREASE due to the instability the LeShay might cause.