Hit Point Alternatives

[Heir Raktus]

I was trying to come up with alternatives to hit points. I recall there was a rather awesome thread on the matter here at one point, but I can't seem to find it. So here is my attempt on the matter to seek some help...

The best HP Alternative I've seen so far has been Status's as Hit Points. The system involves five different states (From hurt to dead) that fluctuate in combat. In order to to move from one state or another you need to recieve more damage than it took to reach that state (Being hurt requires one damage, while being injured requires three). Each state represents something different the character has to overcome.

Long story short, has anyone encountered a similar system that could describe how it worked (and maybe source it)?

 

[GMMichael]

http://faterpg.com/dl/FATE2fe.pdf
Characters take damage relative to how successful the attacker was. Small amounts of success slowly add up to larger amounts, or a really good hit can just take someone out of the fight.

But in the spirit of the thread title...

I'm using ability scores as hit points. There is a subtle difference though; characters can use their perks (feats) not to increase the ability score itself, but to increase the effective ability score. Thus, they can increase hit points faster than the ability score...

 

[Heir Raktus]

Like the Doctor Who RPG then? Where you take damage to ability scores based on the type of damage recieved?

 

[Nagol]

Ars Magica has a five hp/state system that can go to 6 or 7 hp/state for particularly tough humans. It also has a matching 5-state fatigue system. Both systems start applying penalties as the states worsen.

It works fine, but there is definitely a death spiral aspect.

Classic Traveler used attributes as hp. That worked pretty well too.

 

[GMMichael]

My core system has three ability scores: Physical, Mental, and Metaphysical. So far:
Physical damage comes from weapons, exhaustion, energy, etc.
Mental damage comes from magic, bard music, and special abilities (maybe sonic?).
Metaphysical damage comes from casting spells, a ki strike ability, and probably planar/undead creatures.

I'm all about the applying penalties for damage too - mostly because I don't like the idea of beating a giant for twenty minutes just to have it strike back at full strength.

 

[garrowolf]

My system has a status wound level system and ALOT of weapons translated.
http://www.wiki.garrowolf.net/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

[Dethklok]

Why do you need wound levels at all?

I'm serious, here - why not have all hits simply stun, incapacitate, or kill? The video game Bushido Blade did this. Paranoia did something like this, but it also included a wounded level which is reminiscent of everyone having 2 hp and then losing 1 when wounded. In the classic fantasy roleplaying context of sweaty skirmishers, doesn't it make more sense that attacks will distract, maneuver, tire, demoralize, and finally incapacitate, rather than hurt, hurt, hurt, and then finally incapacitate?

Now, I don't actually play games without the ability to inflict cumulative wounds. But it seems that, whether you consider the issue from a simulationist or a storyteller perspective, it's far more important to keep track of the effects of feinting, knocking opponents off balance, flanking them, and so on than wounds. Zenobia had a pretty good system for this - not too detailed, but still pretty evocative.

 

[GMMichael]

Allow me to provide a different perspective real quick:

Hit points measure a character's distance from death, and the usual assumption is that as a character improves, he does a better job of keeping death at bay.

This latter part, though, doesn't have to happen. You could leave all characters at a mortal level of hit points, so that a good sword stab or bullet wound could kill them with one hit. A not-so-good attack would still diminish those few hit points by a large percentage, making it pretty obvious that the character is wounded or near-death.

In this low-HP system, you'd probably want to introduce more and more ways to avoid damage altogether, so that as things get more dangerous, your players don't get paranoid. (And start having less fun).

Next idea for low HP: introduce statuses, relating to Dethklok's comments. If you don't take damage, or if you do but don't die, you can still take on the status of Distracted, Demoralized, or Incapacitated. The character still has hit points, but each status has a different effect on his actions.

 

[garrowolf]

The reason that you want to define the amount of hit points within each wound level is scale. Different sizes and toughnesses of creatures and objects can take different amounts of damage. What is a light wound to you is a deadly wound to a tiny creature. A deadly wound to you may not even penetrate the skin of a dragon. Having these values allows you to create a reasonable damage scaling for a huge amount of creatures, which is exactly what I have done.

 

[3catcircus]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Twilight:2013's hit points/wound levels system is great. Size/strength/health-based as opposed to level-based "hit points" that act as trip points for wound effects. Wound effects that start out with a minor inconvenience to your actions for a mere scratch, all the way up to going into shock and bleeding out without intervention. Includes an optional hit location system as well.