Hoards of Minions and 1st level characters

[Mengu]

I would also suggest cutting fly-by attack out. Flying creatures are already a problem for low level characters. Minionized Shadow Bats might be good for a 3rd level party, but not for a first level party.

Party composition will also be a factor. For a party of Leaders and Strikers, the encounter could be deadly. For a party of Defenders and Controllers, it would be more managable. For a balanced party, it would still be a difficult encounter, but they would be able to get through it spending an action point or two, and maybe a daily or two.

 

[tanj]

You could try using swarms instead.

Re skin rat swarm, give them a bonus to attack in dim light and darkness, the shadow bat's movement, a bonus to stealth skill, remove the ongoing damage, replace low-light vision with dark vision, possibly add flyby attack, and you should be pretty close.

 

[Andur]

Also group minions together so that 4 minions "share" one init roll. That way you are less likely to get PC, PC, 20 minions, next 5 PC's are all dead...

 

[Mengu]

Also group minions together so that 4 minions "share" one init roll. That way you are less likely to get PC, PC, 20 minions, next 5 PC's are all dead...

Oh, nice suggestion. I don't know if I'd go so far as to group them by 4, but somehow splitting them into at least 2-3 groups sounds like a great idea. I'll definitely use this if I run such a battle against a horde of minions.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I ran an encounter with 2 skeletons (level 3 soldier) and 10 crappy skeletons (level 1 minion) against 4 PCs. I had the two skeletons have seperate init and the minions share one init. The minions aren't smart, and attacked in pairs against the different characters. This worked out well.

If I had twenty minions I would maybe put them in two groups. Just don't let them attack the same character the whole time.

Usually I use excel to sort initiative, and have one entry for each monster. With minions I had one entry for all of them, and instead of having hp, I had the number of minions alive.

Let us say you follow my idea, then 4 minions are attacking each PC with a 50% hit chance against strikers/leaders doing 4attack*50% hits*4dmg = 8 damage against those and probably 4 damage against defenders. This should feel appropriately threatening, but manageable.

 

[gnfnrf]

This is actually totally untrue. Level 1 Kobold minions have javelins. 50 of them could attack one PC at the same time.

Kobold minions are less accurate than these minion bats and have to deal with cover to all engage a single target. However, your point stands, and I imagine that in sufficiently large groups, they would be unusually deadly too.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Celebrim]

Also group minions together so that 4 minions "share" one init roll. That way you are less likely to get PC, PC, 20 minions, next 5 PC's are all dead...

With 20 identical monsters in a combat, I don't even bother rolling for initiative. I just assign 1 a '20', the next a 19, the next an 18, and so forth.

 

[Ulthwithian]

That's a neat trick, Celebrim. I might just steal that.

Re: Minions, it can come down to initiative. If the Wizard/AoEer gets the drop on the minions, they definitely are cut down to size quickly. If the Minions all go... well, that can get a bit hairy.

My group now has a Cleric (Dragonborn no less), a Wizard, a Warlord (with Wizard multiclass), a Warlock, and a Fighter. Minions last a very short time against them. And let's not even talk about Undead....