Hold the Line and AoO's

[Fangor the Fierce]

If a said fighter has Hold the Line, Combat Reflexes granting an additional 3 AoO's, and wields a Spiked Chain, it gets pretty nasty.

If this fighter were standing, with a readied action to attack the first monster that threatens him, I would like to know how that is resolved. He readies to attack the first THREATENING monster, therfor, the monster must be in the next adjacent square if it only has a reach of 5 feet. With that being said, he would automatically be granted the AoO when the monster was ten feet away, through the use of Hold the Line and his spiked chain. This would be AoO #1. Monster falls dead.

Next, another monster charges, allowing another AoO for moving from one square that the fighter threatens(10 feet away) to the next square, which he also threatens(5 Feet away). This is the tricky part, as Hold The Line grants you the attack on an opponent ENTERING a threatened sqaure. This new AoO is for moving from a threatened square. This would then be AoO #2 and #3. Monster is still standing, but in now threatens the fighter.

Suddenly, his readied action would come into play, allowing him his full attacks on the creature, as his conditions have been met. He has two attacks, which should be enough to deal this monster enough damage to fall. Monster falls.

Question is, now that his conditions have been met, he is now at his turn, which would then enable him to be back at full allowable AoO's (4 per round). So as the next larger spider charges in on this same round, the said fighter can use Hold the Line to gain an AoO from ten feet away, and another one for moving from the threatened square ten feet away into the adjacent square. (AoO's #4 and #5). He drops the large spider with that attack, while another monster charges as well. Said fighter gains another AoO for entering his threatened area (10 feet) and drops that one. (AoO#6) Yet another charges and same process. It drops. (AoO #7) Now, you can see where a fighter with 4 AoO per round can be a little daunting to the DM who has 2 large spiders and 6 small ones, where as the fighter cleanly dispatches of the them easily with some decent rolls.

Now, is this right or am I missing something? Please clarify if I have overlooked something.

 

[cmanos]

don't have anything handy except the SRD, but I thought Hold the line only gave you an AoO against a charging opponent, not against an opponent moving into a threatened square. Your readied action of attacking the first thing that threatened you would, but thats only for your main attack. So when your first opponent entered a threatened square and you attacked, it wouldn't be from an AoO, but rather from your held attack.

 

[WCrawford]

First only standard actions can be readied. So there is no way any characer can ready a full attack on anything.

Ok, here is how to resolve it. I'm guessing that you wanted the first monster to charge as well (not specified).

When the monster is at 10' from the fighter (having initial started further away) and leaves that first threatened square, the fighter gains his first AoO oppurtunity (which he doesn't have to take). The moster then enters an adjacent square to complete its charge, allowing the fighter's readied action to trigger and an AoO oppurtunity granted via the Hold the Line Feat.

If the fighter uses both AoO oppurtunities, the next monster to charge him would trigger the fighter's next AoO oppurtunity when leaving the threatened square 10' from the fighter. Rince and repeat until all AoO are used or no more mosters are charging

 

[atom crash]

IIRC, any one creature will only draw one attack of opportunity from the fighter per round for movement, regardless of how many threatened squares they enter or travel through.

If monster #2 enters a threatened square and then leaves that threatened square, or travels through 4 squares the fighter threatens, it is still only 1 AoO for movement.

 

[azmodean]

This is primarily a summary of the issues, as others have said pretty much all of this.

I'm not sure about the way Hold the Line works, but you do have two issues regarding the ready action and attacks of opportunity.
1. The ready action does not change your initiative, so the character's number of AoO's would not be "reset" when the readied action triggers, it resets when their initiative comes up.
2. the ready action allows one standard action to be performed, which would only allow a single attack.
3. a single action cannot provoke more than one AoO, your scenario has a monster being attacked twice for making one move (once for moving out of a threatened square and once for hold the line)

Therefore (assuming hold the line works the way you think it does), here is how it would play out.

Monster #1 attacks, Hold the line triggers, AoO kills monster
Monster #2 attacks, Either Hold the Line or moving out of a threatened square triggers an AoO, not both, character gets one AoO.
With monster still standing and now threatening the character, the readied action triggers, and he gets one attack against it. If the moster hasn't been dropped by the two attacks, he gets an attack against the character.
Monster #3 attacks, triggering either Hold the Line or a normal AoO, not both. If it survives the AoO, it gets it's attack.
Monster #4 attacks, same as above, gets one AoO, attacks if it survives.
Monster #5 attacks, character is out of AoOs
monsters #6 - #8 attack, the character can't do anything about it.
If the character is still alive (after 4 - 7 spiders have attacked him) his inititave eventually comes up, at which point his AoOs reset.

The only issue at this point is wether all of those monsters can get close enough to attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are two pertinent rules for AoOs.

1. You can only gain one AoO per opportunity.
2. Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.

Hold the Line grants an opportunity when someone charges into an area you threaten.

The normal rules for AoOs grant an opportunity when someone leaves a square you threaten - but no matter how many squares they leave, only one opportunity.

Notice that Hold the Line is not governed by rule 2... the opportunity is not for "moving out of a square", so it isn't rolled up into the same opportunity as leaving a square.

What does make Hold the Line fuzzy is its use of the word 'area' instead of 'square'. In 3E, we had the phrase "out of or within a threatened area". In 3.5, this was clarified to "out of a threatened square". So we may have to assume that Hold the Line only works when they enter the region of squares that you threaten, not on a per-square basis.

Even so, if you have a longspear, a readied attack, Hold the Line, and Combat Reflexes, and someone with a longsword charges you, you get three attacks: one when they enter your threatened area (Hold the Line AoO), one while they are within your threatened area (readied action), and one when they leave your threatened square to close with you (movement AoO), since the two AoOs are different opportunities.

-Hyp.

 

[Brain]

Even so, if you have a longspear, a readied attack, Hold the Line, and Combat Reflexes, and someone with a longsword charges you, you get three attacks: one when they enter your threatened area (Hold the Line AoO), one while they are within your threatened area (readied action), and one when they leave your threatened square to close with you (movement AoO), since the two AoOs are different opportunities.

In the above scenario, assuming you set your spear for a charge, how many of those 3 attacks would do double damage? Only the readied one?

 

[Hypersmurf]

In the above scenario, assuming you set your spear for a charge, how many of those 3 attacks would do double damage? Only the readied one?

The wording of set spears is a bit hazy, but that's how I'd rule it, yeah.

-Hyp.