Homebrew monster. Looking for constructive critique

[Dwimmerlied]

Looking for some feedback, suggestions or thoughts on my Moon Demon (inspired by an old Fighting Fantasy)
Moon Demon
Small Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplannar,Evil)
HD 7d8 (31hp)
Speed 20ft. (4 squares); Fly 50ft (average)
Init: +6
AC 17 (+1 size, +3 dex, +3 natural); touch 14; flat-footed 14
BAB +7; Grp -4
Attack claw +11 melee (1d4 plus poison)
Full-Attack 2 claws +11 melee (1d4 plus poison) and bite +8 melee (1d6plus 1d6 acid)
Space 5ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Poison, swarmfighting
Special Qualities damagereduction 5/cold iron or good, dark vision 60ft, fast healing 2, immunity topoison, resistance to fire 10
Saves Fort +5 Ref +8 Will +6
Abilities Str 10, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 11
Skills Bluff 10, Diplomacy 6,Disguise 0 (+2 acting), Hide 17, Intimidate 6, Listen 11, Move Silently 13,Search 9, Spot 10
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon finesse, Multiattack
Environment Infinite layers ofthe abyss
Organization Solitary, Wing (2-6), Swarm (7-20)
Challenge Rating 3
Treasure none
Alignment Always Chaotic Evil
Advancement by TYPE 8hd (small) 9-10 (medium)
Favored ClassSorcerer/Cleric
Level Adjustment +X
Larger cousins of the quasit, moon demons lack the natural cunning andspell-like abilities of the quasits, but are tougher and more aggressive. Moondemons like to hunt in packs or swarms. Larger Moon demons exist. They aresometimes lead by moon-demon sorcerers or sorcerer clerics.
Poison (Ex): fort save DC13. Init; 1d4 dex. Sec; 2d4 dex.
Swarmfighting (Ex): Moon Demons can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters. A Moon Demon can occupy the same 5-foot square in combat with any other Moon Demon at no penalty. When a Moon Demon engages a Medium or larger creature in melee, and at least one other Moon Demon threatens the target, it gains a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional Moon Demon beyond the first that threatens the same target. The swarmfighting bonus can not exceed the Dexterity bonus of the Moon Demon making the attack.


Method: advanced the quasit (beyond the advancement limit), tweaked hisabilities a point or two either way (hes less intelligent and strong, butmaintained his dex despite the size increase), took his spell-likes (no more invisor polymorph) and gave his bite attack acid damage.

He's a little tougher than a mephit at the same CR, but doesn't have a breathweapon. I felt CR4 would be too high.

Larger cousins of the quasit, moon demons lack the natural cunning and spell-like abilities of the quasits, but are tougher and more aggressive. Moon demons like to hunt in packs or swarms. Larger Moon demons exist. They are sometimes lead by moon-demon sorcerers or sorcerer clerics.
Poison fort save DC13. Init; 1d4 dex. Sec; 2d4 dex.

Method: advanced the quasit (beyond the advancement limit), tweaked his abilities a point or two either way (hes less intelligent and strong, but maintained his dex despite the size increase), took his spell-likes (no more invis or polymorph) and gave his bite attack acid damage.

He's a little tougher than a mephit at the same CR, but doesn't have a breath weapon. I felt CR4 would be too high.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

Sometimes, they're bigger
Moon Demon (adv)
Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplannar,Evil)
HD 9d8+8 (48hp)
Speed 30ft. (4 squares); Fly 50ft (average)
Init: +7
AC 16 (+3 dex, +3 natural); touch 13; flat-footed 13
BAB +9; Grp +2
Attack claw +13 melee (1d6 +2 plus poison)
Full-Attack 2 claws +13 melee (1d6+2 plus poison) and bite +11 melee(1d8+1 plus 1d6 acid)
Space 5ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Poison
Special Qualitiesdamage reduction 5/cold iron or good, dark vision60ft, fast healing 4, immunity topoison, resistance to fire 10

Saves Fort +7 Ref +8 Will +7
Abilities Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 11
Skills Bluff 12, Diplomacy 6,Disguise 0 (+2 acting), Hide 16, Intimidate 8, Listen 13, Move Silently 14,Search 11, Spot 12
Feats Improved Initiative,Weapon finesse, Multiattack, Ability focus (poison)
Environment Infinite layers ofthe abyss
Organization Solitary, Wing (2-6), Swarm (7-20)
Challenge Rating 6
Treasure none
Alignment Always Chaotic Evil
Advancement by TYPE 10hd (medium)

Favored Class Sorcerer/Cleric

Level Adjustment +X
Poison (Ex): fort save DC17. Init; 1d4 dex. Sec; 2d4 dex.

Swarmfighting (Ex): Moon Demons can coordinate melee attacks against a single target and are adept at fighting side by side in close quarters. A Moon Demon can occupy the same 5-foot square in combat with any other Moon Demon at no penalty. When a Moon Demon engages a Medium or larger creature in melee, and at least one other Moon Demon threatens the target, it gains a +1 morale bonus on the attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for each additional Moon Demon beyond the first that threatens the same target. The swarmfighting bonus can not exceed the Dexterity bonus of the Moon Demon making the attack.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

And finally...

Moon Demon Mage
Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplannar, Evil)
HD 9d8+9
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares); Fly 50ft (average)
Init: +6
AC X (+2 dex,+3 natural); touch X; flat-footed X
BAB +9; Grp +X
Attack claw +11 melee (1d6+2 and poison)
Full-Attack 2 claws +11 melee (1d6+2 and poison) and bite +8 melee (1d8+1plus acid)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Poison, spells, spell-like abilities.
Special Qualities
Saves Fort +10 Ref +11 Will +12
Abilities Str 15, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 16
SkillsBluff 15, Diplomacy 11, Disguise +1 (+3 acting), Hide +12,Intimidate 14, Knowledge (arcana) 13, knowledge (the planes) 13, Listen 15,Move silently 14, search 7, Spot 11, Spellcraft 9.
Feats; Improved initiative, combat casting, multiattack, ability focus(poison)
Environment Infinite layers of the abyss
Organization Alternate form, damage reduction 5/cold iron or good, darkvision 60ft, fast healing 2, immunity to poison, resistance to fire 10.
Challenge Rating 9
Treasure
Alignment Always chaotic evil
Advancement by character class
Favored Class Sorcerer/cleric

A moon demonmage’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are consideredchaotic and evil aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Posion; Fort DC19(includes +2 racial bonus), initial 1d4 dex, secondary 2d4 dex.
Spells; Castsspells as a 9^th level sorcerer or cleric
Spell-likeabilities; (At will); detect good, detect magic, invisibility (self only).1/day (cause fear, 30ft radius). Caster level 6^th. Fort DC15.1/week; Commune (caster level 12) to ask 1 question.
Alternate form;as polymorph, medium size only, does not regain hp.
Can’t beresurrected. Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, but not witharmour.

Moon demon mages haven't lost their quasit spell-likes. This one is a straight up advanced HD Quasit. I also gave him 9th level spellcasting, as sorcerer or wizard. Seems to be in line with the nymph and drider.

Welcome feedback!

Cheers

 

[MJS]

Cool stuff, I envision a layer of the Abyss full of warring colonies of moon demons and quasits, a sunless, but constantly moonlit plane of endless obsidian caves, dotted with volcanos... packs of moon demons being pulled over from the Abyss by evil mages on full moon nights, only to be devoured by them...

 

[Cleon]

Let's see. You can fill out the Xs in the Armor Class and Grapple.

The basic Moon Demon should have a +11 claw attack and +6 bite attack (I'm guessing you forgot the size bonus), plus its Reflex save ought to be +8.

The Advanced Moon Demon's bite damage would normally have half its Strength bonus, being a secondary attack. If you want it's bite to use full Strength that's fine, but I'd advise making a note to that effect in the Combat entry (e.g. "A Moon Demon applies its full strength bonus to its bite attack".) Oh, and its Reflex save is a point too low as well.

The Swarmfighting feat is cool, but I suggest exchanging it for another feat for two reasons. Firstly, the feat's not in the SRD. Secondly, only Small creatures can use Swarmfighting, so the Medium sized advanced Moon Demon and Moon Demon Mage will gain no benefit from it.
I'd suggest giving it the Moon Demon a Swarmfighting special attack instead, like we gave to the Pack Spider conversion.

Multiattack seems a good substitute, since it'll improve the bite attack.

The Moon Demon Mage has two natural bonuses in its AC - I'm presuming the first was supposed to be a Dex bonus - and its claw and bite attack values are both two points too high. Its bite damage should also use half-strength bonus.

Also, the Moon Demon Mage has an identical bonus from Strength and Dexterity bonuses, so it'll only benefit from the Weapon Finesse feat if it uses its Alternate Form ability to polymorph into something with a higher Dex (or uses some other Dex-boosting ability). That seems a bit situational, so it might be better to swap that Feat for something else.

If you were to apply the suggestions I made above, it'd result in the following changes:

Moon Demon
AC 17 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +3 natural); touch 14; flat-footed 14
BAB +7; Grp +3
Attack claw +11 melee (1d4 plus poison)
Full-Attack 2 claws +11 melee (1d4 plus poison) and bite +9 melee (1d6 plus 1d6 acid) [if Multiattack instead of Swarmfighting feat]
Special Attacks Poison, swarmfighting
Saves Fort +7 Ref +8 Will +7
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse, Multiattack

(Advanced)
AC 16 (+3 Dex, +3 natural); touch 13; flat-footed 13
BAB +9; Grp +11
Full-Attack 2 claws +13 melee (1d6+2 plus poison) and bite +11 melee (1d8+1 plus 1d6 acid) [if Multiattack instead of Swarmfighting feat]
Special Attacks Poison, swarmfighting
Saves Fort +7 Ref +9 Will +7
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse, Multiattack, feat

Moon Demon Mage
AC X (+2 Dex, +3 natural); touch 12; flat-footed 13
BAB +9; Grp +11
Full-Attack 2 claws +11 melee (1d6+2 and poison) and bite +9 melee (1d8+1 plus acid)
[if Multiattack instead of Swarmfighting feat]
Special Attacks Poison, swarmfighting
Feats Improved initiative, combat casting, feat, extra feat

Swarmfighting (Ex) [Use the Pack Spider Special Attack, substituting "moon demon" for "pack spider"]

 

[Cleon]

If you were to apply the suggestions I made above, it'd result in the following changes:

Moon Demon
AC 17 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +3 natural); touch 14; flat-footed 14
BAB +7; Grp +3
Attack claw +11 melee (1d4 plus poison)
Full-Attack 2 claws +11 melee (1d4 plus poison) and bite +9 melee (1d6 plus 1d6 acid) [if Multiattack instead of Swarmfighting feat]
Special Attacks Poison, swarmfighting
Saves Fort +7 Ref +8 Will +7
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse, Multiattack

(Advanced)
AC 16 (+3 Dex, +3 natural); touch 13; flat-footed 13
BAB +9; Grp +11
Full-Attack 2 claws +13 melee (1d6+2 plus poison) and bite +11 melee (1d8+1 plus 1d6 acid) [if Multiattack instead of Swarmfighting feat]
Special Attacks Poison, swarmfighting
Saves Fort +7 Ref +9 Will +7
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse, Multiattack, feat

Moon Demon Mage
AC X (+2 Dex, +3 natural); touch 12; flat-footed 13
BAB +9; Grp +11
Full-Attack 2 claws +11 melee (1d6+2 and poison) and bite +9 melee (1d8+1 plus acid)
[if Multiattack instead of Swarmfighting feat]
Special Attacks Poison, swarmfighting
Feats Improved initiative, combat casting, feat, extra feat

Swarmfighting (Ex) [Use the Pack Spider Special Attack, substituting "moon demon" for "pack spider"]

The above corrects all the niggly errors I could find in the stats with a once-through.

That leaves a few "design issues".

The monster seems to have a rather low Armor Class for a Demon of its Hit Dice, its AC is about the same as a Dretch (AC 16) when I'd think something closer to a Succubus's AC 20 or a Babau's AC 19.

It also doesn't have any Spell Resistance, which isn't unheard of for a Demon but does make it significantly more vulnerable.

Speaking of defenses, standard Demons have resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10 plus immunity to electricity and poison. I'm only seeing immunity to poison and fire resistance 10 here.

It also doesn't have the Telepathy and Summon Demons abilities Demons have as standard either.

This leads me to wonder whether you need to make it a Tanar'ri at all. Couldn't it be a generic demonic Outsider?

Dang it, that's made me realize it doesn't have the Chaotic, Evil or Extraplanar subtypes a demon ought to have - better add those in, whether or not you remove the Tanar'ri subtype.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

Great work [MENTION=57383]Cleon[/MENTION], that's very helpful. I've had alook through;- it seems most of your observations were correct, and I'veadjusted for them. The saves for the mage were incorrect, I think- giventhat outsiders have all good saves, but there might be something I've overlooked. I've substituted for multiattack and takenswarmfighting as a racial (ex).

I assumedthat Quasits were Tanar'ri; turns out they are not. Interesting... I'llopt for the generic demonic outsider because I'd like it to maintain theecological tie-in to the Quasit. In avoiding the Tanar'ri subtype, he missesout on much of the suite of special defences you've mentioned, but given histarget CR3, maybe this is a good thing? Perhaps the mage needs it tho.

I'mapprehensive about increasing his armour class. When compared with a mephit atCR3, and gargoyle at CR4, he stands his ground. His saves are comparativelyhigh too, as are his hd. In fact, compared to Gargoyles, it looks like mymoon demon is as good if not better in every way, so I'm going to have to upthe CR to 4 I think.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

Cool stuff, I envision a layer of the Abyss full of warring colonies of moon demons and quasits, a sunless, but constantly moonlit plane of endless obsidian caves, dotted with volcanos... packs of moon demons being pulled over from the Abyss by evil mages on full moon nights, only to be devoured by them...

Very evocative... This is more or less how I have envisioned them too!

 

[Cleon]

Great work @Cleon , that's very helpful. I've had alook through;- it seems most of your observations were correct, and I'veadjusted for them. The saves for the mage were incorrect, I think- giventhat outsiders have all good saves, but there might be something I've overlooked. I've substituted for multiattack and takenswarmfighting as a racial (ex).

The Moon Demon Mages' saves of Fort +7 Ref +8 Will +9 are correct.

Base is Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +6 from its 9 HD.

The Con 12 adds +1 Fort, for Fort +7.
The Dex 15 adds +2 Ref, for Ref +8.
The Wis 16 adds +3 Will, for Will +9.

I assumed that Quasits were Tanar'ri; turns out they are not. Interesting... I'll opt for the generic demonic outsider because I'd like it to maintain the ecological tie-in to the Quasit. In avoiding the Tanar'ri subtype, he misses out on much of the suite of special defences you've mentioned, but given his target CR3, maybe this is a good thing? Perhaps the mage needs it tho.

That's right, Quasits are plain Demons without the Tanar'ri subtype. They weren't Tanar'ri in 2nd edition AD&D either.

There's a handy list in Appendix 3 of Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss that gives the subtypes of all the 3E demons published up to that point.

Of the SRD Demons, all except the Bebilith, Quasit and Retriever are Tanar'ri.

I'm apprehensive about increasing his armour class. When compared with a mephit at CR3, and gargoyle at CR4, he stands his ground. His saves are comparatively high too, as are his hd. In fact, compared to Gargoyles, it looks like mymoon demon is as good if not better in every way, so I'm going to have to up the CR to 4 I think.

They certainly look more like a CR 4 as currently statted.

If you're aiming to make the basic Moon Demon a CR 3 monster I would suggest lowering the Hit Dice to 4 and giving them DR 5/magic or cold iron (although DR 5/magic or good would work, and DR 5/magic or good or cold iron is a possibility).

That'll involve re-figuring the stats, obviously. It'd also mean they'll likely have Advancement 5-8 HD (Small); 9-12 HD (Medium), which fits in neatly with the 9 Hit Dice of the Advanced and Mage versions.

Incidentally, Mephits have very weak stats so should probably have been CR 2. A Quasit is almost as dangerous due to its poison and SLAs (mainly the invisibility).

 

[Dwimmerlied]

The Moon Demon Mages' saves of Fort +7 Ref +8 Will +9 are correct.

Base is Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +6 from its 9 HD.

The Con 12 adds +1 Fort, for Fort +7.
The Dex 15 adds +2 Ref, for Ref +8.
The Wis 16 adds +3 Will, for Will +9.

Of course they are. That's what I get for doing this stuff at 1 in the morning.

If you're aiming to make the basic Moon Demon a CR 3 monster I would suggest lowering the Hit Dice to 4 and giving them DR 5/magic or cold iron (although DR 5/magic or good would work, and DR 5/magic or good or cold iron is a possibility).

That'll involve re-figuring the stats, obviously. It'd also mean they'll likely have Advancement 5-8 HD (Small); 9-12 HD (Medium), which fits in neatly with the 9 Hit Dice of the Advanced and Mage versions.

I think this will work better, yep. I'd initially hoped it would work by expanding the Quasit's progression more or less by the book, by speculating that there are larger ones out there. But the Quasit hogs tiny to 6hd, inflating the power larger sized quasits beyond what I'm looking for. Also, it really doesn't matter