Homewbrew D&D Campaign setting problems: Help with my Creation Myth.

[Nadaka]

I have recently decided to write down and share a high fantasy/horror/mystery/adventure campaign setting that I have been playing/writing for years.

One thing that I have never touched on in any of my games in this setting is the creation myth. Weird? I know. Now that I sit down and try to define it, I come across a point where I can't figure out how to proceed. Or perhaps I should resign the origin of the gods and the many worlds as lost knowledge.

In my mythos:
Long ago the cosmos was in the pure and natural form of its creation. And then, one day, the alien gods called Nai Ya' Eee came. They sought nothing but the utter and total annihilation of all things. The gods of our worlds put aside their differences and worked together to fight off this terrible invasion. Many of our gods died fighting a loosing battle against the countless enemies. At the last moment the mother goddess and her first child sacrificed themselves to create a barrier to keep the alien gods at bay. This war killed many gods, and destroyed or scarred many worlds. But protected by this barrier, life remained and once again took a foothold. These events took place approximately 100 thousand years ago.

This has in essence always been the first story that defines the history of this setting. But what happened before? How were the gods birthed? How and who crafted the worlds? Do the religions still tell the stories of the origin before the Gods War? Do those stories resemble the truth?

General background
The mother goddess birthed 5 children. These 5 are the prime gods, each tied to a fundamental force.
The 3 goddesses Inritus, Aldore, Nocte (Void/Balance, Ice/Order, Darkness/Chaos)
The twin sun gods Solus and Solaris (Fire/Evil, Light/Good)
Note: I may be adding a few prime gods to round things out.

These 5 gods create the second generation of gods, (somewhere between 30 and 50 gods and goddesses)

The question?
How? The generally accepted belief is that gods do have gender. For them to create the second generation would likely involve procreation. However there are at least 2 gods in the second generation that are created with aspects of each possible combination of the prime gods (including those of the same gender). Now, in “reality” the gods might not even exist, and the human concept of gender or procreation might not apply even if they do. But how would the followers of the religion explain this? Would they? Considering the epic nature of the Gods War, would prior events even matter to these people? In the games I’ve run in this setting the only gods with religions that were more than a footnote were Solus, Solaris, Nocte and the racial gods of orcs, elves, dwarves and drow. The rest are somewhat nebulously defined. I am at a loss as to where to go from here. Should I just say “no one knows, or even has stories about where most of the gods come from. Except for Tourus, Corellan, Lillith and Moradin.” (I probably have to change Corellan and Moradin to something not WotC IP) To me, that just doesn’t seem to feel right. Any suggestions?

 

[Drawmack]

Really you could go two ways:

1) The gods are eteranal almost existing outside of time and therefor with no begining or end.

2) Use a wheel of time type thing. Gods are not steady state, but rather the greatest heroes of one era become the Gods of the next era.

 

[The Hound]

For what it's worth, in our world, the big monotheistic religions believe that in the beginning there was an eternal god (always existed, or outside of time as we know it) and the physical world (such as it was) consisted of nothing but formless chaos (referred to by terms like "the waters"). Then the god took this chaos and gave order to it, separating the land from the water from the vault of the heavens, saying let there be light, and then started making all sorts of plants and animals. Tolkein used similar ideas in the Silmarillion.

Obviously there's a lot of hand waving on the part of the storytellers here, but the same general scheme could be applied to your universe. There could have been an eternally existing god who decided to split itself first into male and female (which could represent or embody all sorts of opposites like light (male) and dark (female), creation (female) and destruction (male), law and chaos, etc.). These would have procreated the other gods and created the physical world, perhaps initially as a place for their children to live.

The alien gods could have sprung from some other eternally existing god (there might have been an infinite number of these gods in the infinite and eternal reaches of the original formless chaos) and then stumbled upon the other gods and their creation, and decided they did not like this creation business at all. A created world, I suppose, is an embodiment of law, so maybe these alien gods just prefer the original pristine state of chaos that exists elsewhere/elsewhen

 

[Tonguez]

Considering the epic nature of the Gods War, would prior events even matter to these people?

Personally I'd leave anything to do with 'Before the Gods War' a mystery, the knowledge being lost when the Mother and her First Child sacrificed themselves.
Clergy asked the question will reply " Long ago the cosmos was in the pure and natural form of its creation. There dwelt the Mother goddess and her first child but they were sacrificed to protect us all and so those things remain hidden from us"

So in the Theogony we have the
Mother and Her First Child
The Five First generation
The 50 Second generation - I'd have these veiwed as the children of the first 5
Alien gods - unknowm origin
Any others - Soul-Remnants of the First Child When the First Child was sacrified the remanats of his Soul entered into all things and thus All things have spirit and these spirits may be invoked and even worshipped as gods ...

 

[Brimshack]

One thing you might keep in mind is that good creation narratives always have a sort of ambivalent sense of who is responsibile for evil. The flaw in the universe isn't going to be totally alien. Perhaps the local gods did something in their own battles to give the aliens an opening. Perhaps the hero gods inherited a kingdom, but only because some other being was denied that kingdom for spurious reasons ...and that being festers hatred for all the world, the world he should have inherited were it not for the noble hero gods who enjoy a kingdom that is not really theirs. Perhaps they transgressed sacred boundaries while fighting (made too much noise and attracted a malevolent force), or perhaps they ignored a sacred duty (leaving an important safeguard unprotected). Perhaps, they created the alien gods themselves by accident (in Navajo emergence narratives, the monsters are literally the offspring of masturbation during a period when men and women were apart.) I think the idea of totally alien gods is somewhat of a let down. The hero gods ought to have a trace of responsibility themselves; this makes the plot more intense than just a satanis ex machina.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the narrative should explain some things about the present order. The social structure of society could be embedded in your pantheon, perhaps even the nature of evil (and of evil orcs). Something about the nature of production is likely to be in the narrative as well. Do people in your world fish or farm? Perhaps that is at least partly the fruit of the sacrifice.

Lastly, don't worry about what came before. Creation ex nihilo is actually the exception in cosmogony. Most origin narratives do begin with an existing world, and that world is left largely without comment. If someone asks where the gods come from, they are asking a question unlikely to be of concern to people in a polytheistic universe. If a player does that, have the NPC look at them funny, get a little impatient, and provide them with no answer whatsoever.

 

[Nadaka]

There are some definate good suggestions here.

Note that the first child who sacrificed herself was Inritus, the goddess of void and balance. Left on thier own, the other gods can achieve balance only through conflict, rather than cooperation.

One of the principal aspects that I have used in the setting is that of mystery. The PCs, over the course of adventures and campains discover secrets, hidden truths. Were I to publish this (and I will, at least as series of webpages), it would be best to offer a number of "truths", one or more of wich may be real, and the rest would likely just be rumors or false beliefs.

General Beliefs:
Before the Gods War, the creator goddess had existed for all time. She birthed the five prime gods. First Inritus, the void, who's wisdom and moderation are unmatched. Then Solaris, the light, whos purity and radiance are unparalelled. The his twin Solus, the fire, who's anger burns so fierce. Then came Nocte, the dark, who dances in the timultuous night. Then came Aldore, the cold, whose frigid heart always remains in perfect order.

These five then went on to create all the worlds that once were, all the living creatures and thier respective gods. Some by birth, some by spontanious creation. It was a time of creation and conflict.

Divergent Beliefs:
Nature of the Alien Gods:
Some would hold that they are the corrupted and imperfect children of the mother goddess. Mistakes that hunted her down to seek vengance and destroy her successful creations.

Some would hold that the alien gods are truely alien. Spawned is the chaos of the maelstrom that surrounds the cosmos. They view our cosmos as a festering wound on the purity of thier home, and like any wound they wish to "cure" it.

Yet others would claim that they are the remnants of the the divine energy that escaped our cosmos, released in the conflict between Solus and Solaris, only to be twisted and malformed by the maelstrom.

I could probably list a few more.

Probably more than anything that happened before, the gods war shaped culture and geography. None of the 4 remaining worlds are unscarred, the rest have been blasted to countless shards (many of them have "fantastic" directional gravity, and are still supporting life) or consumed by the Nai Ya' Eee. It was practically a true apocalypse, a third the gods died, most of the worlds broken, life nearly wiped out. It set the stage for the conflicts between elves, drow and orcs at the very least.

So I guess I'll stop worrying about what "really" happened. And only focus on the stories and rumors that I need to. Leaving the rest ambigous. Forgive me, I need to get a couple hours of sleep, sorry for any incoherence.

 

[DragonLancer]

In my mythos:
Long ago the cosmos was in the pure and natural form of its creation. And then, one day, the alien gods called Nai Ya' Eee came. They sought nothing but the utter and total annihilation of all things. The gods of our worlds put aside their differences and worked together to fight off this terrible invasion. Many of our gods died fighting a loosing battle against the countless enemies. At the last moment the mother goddess and her first child sacrificed themselves to create a barrier to keep the alien gods at bay. This war killed many gods, and destroyed or scarred many worlds. But protected by this barrier, life remained and once again took a foothold. These events took place approximately 100 thousand years ago.

This has in essence always been the first story that defines the history of this setting. But what happened before? How were the gods birthed? How and who crafted the worlds? Do the religions still tell the stories of the origin before the Gods War? Do those stories resemble the truth?

The first thing to comes to mind is "Do you really need to define this?" Is it relevant to any of the campaigns you will play with your world. What you have here is the story as passed down through generations. Unless you want to work it out for your own reference, I wouldn't worry about expanding on this.

The question?
How? The generally accepted belief is that gods do have gender. For them to create the second generation would likely involve procreation. However there are at least 2 gods in the second generation that are created with aspects of each possible combination of the prime gods (including those of the same gender). Now, in “reality” the gods might not even exist, and the human concept of gender or procreation might not apply even if they do. But how would the followers of the religion explain this? Would they? Considering the epic nature of the Gods War, would prior events even matter to these people? In the games I’ve run in this setting the only gods with religions that were more than a footnote were Solus, Solaris, Nocte and the racial gods of orcs, elves, dwarves and drow. The rest are somewhat nebulously defined. I am at a loss as to where to go from here. Should I just say “no one knows, or even has stories about where most of the gods come from. Except for Tourus, Corellan, Lillith and Moradin.” (I probably have to change Corellan and Moradin to something not WotC IP) To me, that just doesn’t seem to feel right. Any suggestions?

Again, does it matter who they procreate? Maybe they shake hands and pass divine energy between themselves. Maybe their avatars actually do the dirty deed and birth a god. Ultimately, again if it has no bearing on the campaign, don't worry about it.

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

The question?
How? The generally accepted belief is that gods do have gender. For them to create the second generation would likely involve procreation. However there are at least 2 gods in the second generation that are created with aspects of each possible combination of the prime gods (including those of the same gender). Now, in “reality” the gods might not even exist, and the human concept of gender or procreation might not apply even if they do. But how would the followers of the religion explain this? Would they? Considering the epic nature of the Gods War, would prior events even matter to these people? In the games I’ve run in this setting the only gods with religions that were more than a footnote were Solus, Solaris, Nocte and the racial gods of orcs, elves, dwarves and drow. The rest are somewhat nebulously defined. I am at a loss as to where to go from here. Should I just say “no one knows, or even has stories about where most of the gods come from. Except for Tourus, Corellan, Lillith and Moradin.” (I probably have to change Corellan and Moradin to something not WotC IP) To me, that just doesn’t seem to feel right. Any suggestions?

Have a look at some real world myths.

First of all straight procreation - i.e. God sleeps with Goddess out pops new God/Goddess - seems entirely feasible. Even if the original five were brothers and sisters, mortal morality doesn't always seem to apply to the Gods.

The new Gods could also be the result of liaisons between the prime Gods/Goddesses and mortals or monsters.

Then there's ways for Gods to be borne that are just plain different to mortal norms - think of Athene springing from Zeus's head. Perhaps one of the prime Gods was killed and several new Gods sprang from his corpse?

Or could any of the new Gods be "elevated" mortals - that (I believe) is the supposed origin of at least some of the Greyhawk and FR gods.

 

[robertsconley]

I
The question?
How? The generally accepted belief is that gods do have gender. For them to create the second generation would likely involve procreation. However there are at least 2 gods in the second generation that are created with aspects of each possible combination of the prime gods (including those of the same gender). Now, in “reality” the gods might not even exist, and the human concept of gender or procreation might not apply even if they do. But how would the followers of the religion explain this? Would they? Considering the epic nature of the Gods War, would prior events even matter to these people? In the games I’ve run in this setting the only gods with religions that were more than a footnote were Solus, Solaris, Nocte and the racial gods of orcs, elves, dwarves and drow. The rest are somewhat nebulously defined. I am at a loss as to where to go from here. Should I just say “no one knows, or even has stories about where most of the gods come from. Except for Tourus, Corellan, Lillith and Moradin.” (I probably have to change Corellan and Moradin to something not WotC IP) To me, that just doesn’t seem to feel right. Any suggestions?

In human religions are severel reoccuring themes. Wikipedia has an overview you can use as a starting point

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_religion

GURPS Religion is the best gaming cookbook I found for developing role-playing religion.

http://www.amazon.com/GURPS-Religio...ef=sr_1_1/103-5400812-2677423?ie=UTF8&s=books

One think I noticed about your summary is that there is little or no philosphy. It could read like the founding of any human family with a who's who listing. Not to say that it could be more but it not very well.. religious.

Religion exists to fulfill human needs. For these powerful beings to be considered gods they need to involve themselves to fullfil the needs of humans and other races. Otherwise they are just a bunch of hugely powerful extra-planar creatures. For example the Christian and Jewish Bible is about God's history with humanity. It says little about angels because it is about Man's relationship with God and vice-versa. It not about God's relationship with angels. The same about the Koran, the writing of the Hindu, etc, etc. They are teach either about the realation between man and X and/or about how man needs to deal with the universe (karma, etc).

For gaming it comes down to what part to they play in the overall plot arc of your game. Look at the historical religion and pick the elements that fulfill that goal.

For myself, the background of my religion is that the universe was created the gods were given the task to be caretakers and teachers to the children races of man, elves, etc.

The first attempt started with a utopia that degenerated into a revolt. The rebels were eventually defeated and became the founding demons.

The second (and current) attempt is that the gods withdrew and now teach and interact through mysticism and intermediates. Their goal is the same but now they do it differently as the first path didn't work.

The wrinkle is that because of the rebellion of the demons some of the surviving gods have been deeply effected by their experience and been twisted by it. They still hate demons, as all gods do, in my world. But you and i would consider the philosophies they teach self-serving and/or evil.

The overall idea that the races will eventually come to inherit creation and transcend it. The first attempt using utopia is considered the first covenant and the current the second covenant

I drew from judeo-Christianity the idea of covenants, although not all the gods I have are like Judaism and Christanity. For example Harmakhis the judge of the dead, religion is a fusion between Aztecs and inspiration of the old Vecna/Kas entiries in the DMG.

I decided what the role I want religion to play in my game and drew from historical information to flesh it out.

Enjoy
Rob Conley