-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Hopefully, someone can find a rule that makes this not work.
- Thread starter Joeluma
- Start date
Circumstance bonus to Will save. Staff of the Magi is a high level artifact. No one is gonna believe just like that that every Tom, Dick and Harry has one.
Staff of Power is more believable, but not by much (thing costs over 100k). Depends on your campaign setting.
Also, anyone with TS, Detect Magic and the like will hose the tactic.
Mage will take 1 round to cast Image before the Image can attack (it will move on his initiative). Anyone shooting it or harming it in any way or seeing the duplicate of the mage will get a circumstance bonus to Will save.
If the mage uses it in a surprise round, it can't move and attack in the same round. If it moves up to the target, that gives the target or anyone in the target's party a chance to hit it during the first round. That will give a circumstance bonus to Will save.
Any combination of the above will effectively shut it down.
Staff of Power is more believable, but not by much (thing costs over 100k). Depends on your campaign setting.
Also, anyone with TS, Detect Magic and the like will hose the tactic.
Mage will take 1 round to cast Image before the Image can attack (it will move on his initiative). Anyone shooting it or harming it in any way or seeing the duplicate of the mage will get a circumstance bonus to Will save.
If the mage uses it in a surprise round, it can't move and attack in the same round. If it moves up to the target, that gives the target or anyone in the target's party a chance to hit it during the first round. That will give a circumstance bonus to Will save.
Any combination of the above will effectively shut it down.
Also, you might want to give a Will save bonus period on top of the above.
A powerful, high-level character running down the street at an Ogre and breaking a Staff of the Magi? For just a bloody Ogre??? Now, if it was the BBEG and the party is losing the fight, I'd agree. But EVERY little fight???? Not likely! If I was to see a mage screaming down at insignificant ole me and about to break a Staff of the Magi on my noggin, I'd be more likely to believe a bruised skull than a big fat boom.
The "that is NOT possible" reaction is a valid defense and a valid reason to give the opponent a circumstance bonus to Will save.
A powerful, high-level character running down the street at an Ogre and breaking a Staff of the Magi? For just a bloody Ogre??? Now, if it was the BBEG and the party is losing the fight, I'd agree. But EVERY little fight???? Not likely! If I was to see a mage screaming down at insignificant ole me and about to break a Staff of the Magi on my noggin, I'd be more likely to believe a bruised skull than a big fat boom.
The "that is NOT possible" reaction is a valid defense and a valid reason to give the opponent a circumstance bonus to Will save.
Joeluma
First Post
not sure if breaking the staff is a full round action... fairly certain its only a normal action...
also, circumstance bonuses dont matter much, with the right selection of prcs the will save is fairly astronomical... i can think of at least +8 that i can get in the first 7 levels, on top of stats.
also... the prcs im thinking of cause permanent illusion to be a shadow spell, maxing out at something like 50% shadow material... how would that be affected in your opinion?
oh, and yes, its an illusion breaking an illusionary staff.
programmed illusions can be set up ahead of time, so in any situation with warning, the illusion can be the start of the encounter....
the prcs i consider for this illusionist are from 'races of stone' and forgotten realms.
shadow adept, shadow magi (i think, im operating from memory)
also, circumstance bonuses dont matter much, with the right selection of prcs the will save is fairly astronomical... i can think of at least +8 that i can get in the first 7 levels, on top of stats.
also... the prcs im thinking of cause permanent illusion to be a shadow spell, maxing out at something like 50% shadow material... how would that be affected in your opinion?
oh, and yes, its an illusion breaking an illusionary staff.
programmed illusions can be set up ahead of time, so in any situation with warning, the illusion can be the start of the encounter....
the prcs i consider for this illusionist are from 'races of stone' and forgotten realms.
shadow adept, shadow magi (i think, im operating from memory)
TheGogmagog
First Post
I don't quite get it either. If it does something cool in your campaign, try putting an illusionary bag of holding into an illusionary portable hole.Felnar said:
I would also doubt anyone observing your antic would have any clue what the staff was or what you were doing to it.
The effect wouldnt be any more than an illusionary fireball, or Meteor swarm, or Hellball spellseed.... nothing. Check up on Figments. p173 of PH. They do no damage. (took me too long, had to look it up to be sure)
First, as Meleeguy said, it is a figment, and figments CANNOT cause damage.
Second, whatever the action is, a surprise round is 1 STANDARD action only. Which means the image can move, or it can break the staff. It cannot do both.
Third, it sounds like you are trying to find loopholes in the system to make an uber-powerful character for yourself. Good luck with that. If I was your DM, I'd give the opponent a +10 to Will save just for the absurdity of a high level character breaking a Staff of Magi to get rid of an insignificant kobold ("OMG! Elminster just broke a Staff of the Magi on little ole level 1 Commoner me! I am so gonna believe that...!!!"). For a low-mid level intelligent monster who has never even HEARD of a Staff of the Magi, let alone its effects, I'd give an even bigger save bonus. Assuming that the figment can do damage, of course, which it can't.
Second, whatever the action is, a surprise round is 1 STANDARD action only. Which means the image can move, or it can break the staff. It cannot do both.
Third, it sounds like you are trying to find loopholes in the system to make an uber-powerful character for yourself. Good luck with that. If I was your DM, I'd give the opponent a +10 to Will save just for the absurdity of a high level character breaking a Staff of Magi to get rid of an insignificant kobold ("OMG! Elminster just broke a Staff of the Magi on little ole level 1 Commoner me! I am so gonna believe that...!!!"). For a low-mid level intelligent monster who has never even HEARD of a Staff of the Magi, let alone its effects, I'd give an even bigger save bonus. Assuming that the figment can do damage, of course, which it can't.
TheGogmagog
First Post
Ah, now we get to the problem. Spells list the maximum damage they can directly cause. If they don't list damage, it has no damage potential.Joeluma said:
Now you are mixing races of stone (ugh) which changes the subtype of illusion spells? If you are asking the question, I'll assume they didn't list damage caps. It's possible the 50% real damage only applies to simulated spells (with damage potential). If I were your DM, It would be max of half the typical damage for a 6th level spell. Or I would not allow races of stone for the 'what were they thinking' factor.
Joeluma
First Post
good idea, if someone ever tries it on me i'll give it a damage cap, so itll effectively be shadow conjuration to make fireballish damage, or such. good, that deals with that.
i generally just think this stuff up so i can figure out how to negate it
when i play characters, i generally develope them according to perceived 'personality' of the character... i will admit to building strong characters (generally good to great out of combat, with good skill sets, as well as strong primary and special effect attacks, but never obscenely exploitative).
the only other sick class im not certain how to deal with is a wild monk/shifter... you either use vow of poverty for constant stat bonuses to any form you assume, or u spend massively on wishes etc to boost your wisdom, and apply a no-space +5 natural weapon item... this is actually a class i entered in consideration for a game... the dm told me everyone was doing their best to be uber, so i jokingly made up the wild monk/shifter. with access to 4 monstrous manuals, and assuming the [EX] abilities of any monster form you take.... the cheese becomes drippingly clear... so after that i built an interesting feral hexblade/monk/soul eater that fit the campaign nicely.
i generally just think this stuff up so i can figure out how to negate it
when i play characters, i generally develope them according to perceived 'personality' of the character... i will admit to building strong characters (generally good to great out of combat, with good skill sets, as well as strong primary and special effect attacks, but never obscenely exploitative).the only other sick class im not certain how to deal with is a wild monk/shifter... you either use vow of poverty for constant stat bonuses to any form you assume, or u spend massively on wishes etc to boost your wisdom, and apply a no-space +5 natural weapon item... this is actually a class i entered in consideration for a game... the dm told me everyone was doing their best to be uber, so i jokingly made up the wild monk/shifter. with access to 4 monstrous manuals, and assuming the [EX] abilities of any monster form you take.... the cheese becomes drippingly clear... so after that i built an interesting feral hexblade/monk/soul eater that fit the campaign nicely.
Similar Threads
