Hot take: Only the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings should be viewed as canonical Middle-Earth books

Vael

Legend
I wouldn't go that far... but in specific cases I agree. Boromir in particular is handled so much better in the movies -- he's far more sympathetic and well fleshed out, so that his death scene is a gut punch. In the book he's just an irritating blowhard and his death scene is more or less foreordained.

Boromir is the main point, I'd agree. I also think LotR movies made the Ring feel more insidious and ... active. Seeing Faramir and Aragorn have to fight the temptation of the Ring was important. It gave weight to Galadriel's warning and Gandalf's fear of it. The Ring feels like an actual character of sorts.

And I'm not saying the films are perfect. But I think they do a good job of distilling down the story to something manageable in even their epic runtimes.
 

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Yeah, I 100% agree. Tolkien was picky, and if he never thought his work was worthy of publication, just because his son slapped some drafts together into a "book" doesn't mean that's what the Professor would have wanted.

So I look at the Silmarillion and other later collected material as what is in one draft that could have been part of the larger story, but since it wasn't finished we don't know how happy Tolkien was with that vision.

My hot take has been that LotR movies are actually an improvement on the books

Oh yeah, absolutely. I don't know what JRRT was thinking with that Bombadil character, but I think someone must have adulterated his tobacco ...

Though I think PJ did a couple of characters dirty (Aragorn, Faramir -- and poor, poor Glorfindel, even if Arwen is the better choice).

By that logic, only Lucas’ films are canon Star Wars, only Greenwood’s stuff is canon Realms.

I go further and only the original trilogy is canon Star Wars, and there is no canon Realms. Quality gets a vote.
 
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UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
Canon is fine when you are a creator trying to paint within the lines already established. It is not fine when used as a cudgel to beat out an alternative take on the same or similar information.
Fans, in particular, spend way too much time on creating a consistent canon.
We need to learn to cope with imprecision and inconsistency, I often wonder how many notable historical decisions were the result of well thought out policy and how many because the gout/hangover/lingering anger after the row with the missus snap decisions.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Hot Take: Canon is bad. Stories are stories, not reality. Different versions of stories can and should exist in parallel, depending on the needs of the reader.
I agree. And we need look no further than superhero franchises to see how that can work perfectly. The MCU isn't the same as the comics, which aren't the same as other comics about the same characters. The Batman isn't the same as Batman '89. But they're all awesome. Different interpretations and takes on a story or character make the world richer, not poorer.

I guess we can have lots of canons, and that's just fine. You can like some and not others, and that's fine too.
 



Mercurius

Legend
I agree that the whole notion of "canon" is faulty, but will take it a step further: It makes no sense for a world created by a single author. The whole purpose of assigning a "canon" is to have an agreed upon body of lore and stories for a shared universe - that is, a world with no single author, that multiple people make stories in. This, in turn, guides future stories.

So it kind of makes sense for Star Wars or Star Trek or Marvel or the Forgotten Realms, not so much Middle-earth.

As for The Silmarillion, I'm reminded of that quote from Robert Frost or Mark Twain (can't remember who): "Poets don't finish poems, publishers do." Or some such. In this case, Christopher Tolkien was the publisher/editor/compiler, but not the author. The poetry was all JRR; Christopher just put it together in a cohesive manner for publication. And thank the Ainur he did!

And perhaps more importantly: The stories of the Silmarillion were the heart of the "matter of Middle-earth;" they were Tolkien's truest love. To disregard them as "non-canonical" is even more non-sensical than imagining a "canon" for a world created by a single author.

I think a more meaningful distinction for Middle-earth is not canon vs non-canon, but Tolkien vs non-Tolkien. In fact, I think that's the only meaningful distinction. There's Tolkien's works--in whatever form or fashion, or state of completion--and then there's everything else, which are adaptations, no more or less. Whether or not one prefers the adaptations is beside the point; they aren't actually Tolkien's work, just "takes" on his work.
 

Ryujin

Legend
On the subject of the idea of canon, Zombie Orpheus Entertainment made the worlds in their various properties "shared cinematic universes" some time back. As part of this they released the "Fartherall World Bible" ("The Gamers", "JourneyQuest"), "Strowlers World Bible", and "Demon Hunters World Bible" so that the question of what is canon is in black and white (unless you backed at a level that got you the colour version of the Fartherall World Bible, that is). Play by those rules and you can make your own production, that can be submitted to be canon. I know that at the very least the "Strowlers World Bible" is available to download free, in PDF form, for those who want to play as creators in that sandbox. There have already been collaborations with creators in Hawaii, New Zealand, Finland, and Mongolia. It can be done.

 

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