I'm thinking of having an encounter in a house of mirrors, but I'm having trouble coming up with rules for the encounter. I've considered giving everyone the effect of a mirror image spell and then having each destroyed image be a shattered mirror. I've also considered just assigning everyone a miss chance like blur or displacement to account for the mirror effect. Other things I'm thinking about include requireing a spot check DC 15 to make a standard move, if you fail you can only move at half speed, to account for the disorienting nature of the mirrors. Has anyone tried something like this or does anyone have any other rule suggestions?
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house of mirrors combat rules
- Thread starter direcow
- Start date
I think the first choice is poor. The second one is better, and the third is very close. I would probably give people Intelligence or Wisdom checks (not sure which, maybe whichever is better per creature) to avoid being confused (not quite like the spell, but maybe disoriented similar to being stunned). Furthermore, I would have some kind of increase in the DC per round of activity (as combat becomes increasingly difficult when levitating.) Note that they can avoid these rolls altogether if they just keep their eyes shut, giving everyone around them total concealment.direcow said:
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Particle_Man
Explorer
Don't forget to add some panes of ordinary glass, and some dopplegangers, to add to the fun.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Map out the whole hall of mirrors, get duplicate miniatures, and work out roughly where people should see things. Don't draw the mirrors (or panes of glass etc.
I'd suggest sticking with 45 degree angles though.
I'd suggest sticking with 45 degree angles though.
For added fun check out the Transient Plane of Mirrors in the 3.0 Manual of the Planes. They think they see a reflection, they do see a reflection, the reflection suddenly reaches out and grabs them, and possibly pulls them into the mirror. Do keep in mind entering the transient plane of mirrors has a mirror of opposition effect on the travelers.
Hmm, a doppleganger in the mirror plane. Could have some shock value and twists.
PC: Ah, another mirror...
DM: Your reflection moves apart from your own actions
PC: *gasp*
Hmm, a doppleganger in the mirror plane. Could have some shock value and twists.
PC: Ah, another mirror...
DM: Your reflection moves apart from your own actions
PC: *gasp*
Thanks for the suggestions. I agree that using mirror image is a poor choice, it was just an idea. The idea regarding minis isn't too workable for me given that my selection of minis is pretty slim. Also it might get difficult to determine where reflections might appear when characters start to move. As for dopplegangers, that could be really fun.
For rules, I'm leaning toward giving everyone a 20% miss chance (or whatever miss chance you get from blur). A spot check DC ? is required to move at full speed, otherwise you move at half speed. I'm also toying with the idea that you can flank with mirrors, i.e. if a character is backed up against a mirror and a bad guy is attacking from the opposite side, the bad guy gets a flanking bonus. I mostly want to do this because the party will be fighting a rogue or assasian in the hall of mirrors and I want to try and maximize his sneak attack. Although I'm not sure if the miss chance means that rogues can't sneak attack (I know sneak attack doesn't work when there is cover).
For rules, I'm leaning toward giving everyone a 20% miss chance (or whatever miss chance you get from blur). A spot check DC ? is required to move at full speed, otherwise you move at half speed. I'm also toying with the idea that you can flank with mirrors, i.e. if a character is backed up against a mirror and a bad guy is attacking from the opposite side, the bad guy gets a flanking bonus. I mostly want to do this because the party will be fighting a rogue or assasian in the hall of mirrors and I want to try and maximize his sneak attack. Although I'm not sure if the miss chance means that rogues can't sneak attack (I know sneak attack doesn't work when there is cover).
Nyeshet
First Post
Illusory walls that act as mirrors can be interesting - especially if the assassins have some means of seeing through the illusions and are on the other side of the mirrors in question.
Adding in planes of glass is nice, and Doppelgangers taking the form of the characters will also confuse the issue (as it will seem that they are mere reflections - until they strike). Consider having a few moving walls / mirrors / planes of glass. The PC steps around a corner after being separated from the party - then seeks to go back and hits a mirror / plane of glass. Let them think they got turned around and have taken a wrong turn.
Do not map the planes of glass, just tell them that they cannot go in that direction - and let them move their own pieces on the whiteboard while you have a smaller board behind the DM shield with their actual location.
Don't forget - each time they break a mirror with an attack, the sharp shards of glass should 'splatter' back upon them - perhaps 1d3 slashing or piercing damage, using their attack against their own AC to see if it hit. This may prevent them from just breaking a path through the room of mirrors. Perhaps have crystalline walls - or even walls of force - behind some of the mirrors, the better to prevent a straight path of breakage.
If any of the assassins have invisibility this could prove invaluable.
As for how to treat the attacks, etc. As I said above, keep two boards this time. The players move their own pieces on the larger - outside of the DM shield - whiteboard. Each time the DM tells them whether or not they can actually move in that direction or not (per square). After they do, consider on the smaller whiteboard (or piece of paper / map with the players / foes mapped out, behind the DM shield) where the player may now appear to be to the others. Don't let the players map out on the white board where the 'walls' are, as this will make it easier for them to find their way and realize when new walls have appeared. Move the foes first on the mini-map behind the shield, then determine where they would seem to appear / move on the open whiteboard.
If an attack occurs, either it succeeds or fails (with shattered glass occuring often upon a failure - maybe opening a new path, or not if crystal / walls of force are in play behind it). After, a 20% miss chance is perhaps a good idea, as any movement on either's part could in fact create, negate, and move multiple images surrounding the character. By the way, if anyone casts mirror image, also determine where the mirror images will be seen, for each image would in fact cast its own reflections, further confusing the issue. I'd probably up the miss chance to 50% in that case, vs a Spot check perhaps. The DC should be a little high, however, due to the confusing complexity of the situation. DC 20 - 25 sounds about right, although unusual situations may push it up further.
Low lighting could also work in your favor. If the players are limited to perhaps no more than 20 ft (40 with LLV) unless they are carrying a torch it is enough to notice the nearer images (which is most of what they would be seeing anyway) while also making it harder to realize the size of the chamber and perhaps making it harder to realize how far they are into it - and from each other. Thus, if they briefly lose sight of another member - only to see them again a moment later - they are less likely to suspect a suddenly moving wall separated the member from the group and allowed a doppelganger to move in among them. If one of the group members tends to be the silent or standoffish type (or recently is due to some party arguement) they make an excellent choice for such, as the doppelganger might perhaps move among them for several rounds - even minutes - before they are found out.
Adding in planes of glass is nice, and Doppelgangers taking the form of the characters will also confuse the issue (as it will seem that they are mere reflections - until they strike). Consider having a few moving walls / mirrors / planes of glass. The PC steps around a corner after being separated from the party - then seeks to go back and hits a mirror / plane of glass. Let them think they got turned around and have taken a wrong turn.
Do not map the planes of glass, just tell them that they cannot go in that direction - and let them move their own pieces on the whiteboard while you have a smaller board behind the DM shield with their actual location.
Don't forget - each time they break a mirror with an attack, the sharp shards of glass should 'splatter' back upon them - perhaps 1d3 slashing or piercing damage, using their attack against their own AC to see if it hit. This may prevent them from just breaking a path through the room of mirrors. Perhaps have crystalline walls - or even walls of force - behind some of the mirrors, the better to prevent a straight path of breakage.
If any of the assassins have invisibility this could prove invaluable.
As for how to treat the attacks, etc. As I said above, keep two boards this time. The players move their own pieces on the larger - outside of the DM shield - whiteboard. Each time the DM tells them whether or not they can actually move in that direction or not (per square). After they do, consider on the smaller whiteboard (or piece of paper / map with the players / foes mapped out, behind the DM shield) where the player may now appear to be to the others. Don't let the players map out on the white board where the 'walls' are, as this will make it easier for them to find their way and realize when new walls have appeared. Move the foes first on the mini-map behind the shield, then determine where they would seem to appear / move on the open whiteboard.
If an attack occurs, either it succeeds or fails (with shattered glass occuring often upon a failure - maybe opening a new path, or not if crystal / walls of force are in play behind it). After, a 20% miss chance is perhaps a good idea, as any movement on either's part could in fact create, negate, and move multiple images surrounding the character. By the way, if anyone casts mirror image, also determine where the mirror images will be seen, for each image would in fact cast its own reflections, further confusing the issue. I'd probably up the miss chance to 50% in that case, vs a Spot check perhaps. The DC should be a little high, however, due to the confusing complexity of the situation. DC 20 - 25 sounds about right, although unusual situations may push it up further.
Low lighting could also work in your favor. If the players are limited to perhaps no more than 20 ft (40 with LLV) unless they are carrying a torch it is enough to notice the nearer images (which is most of what they would be seeing anyway) while also making it harder to realize the size of the chamber and perhaps making it harder to realize how far they are into it - and from each other. Thus, if they briefly lose sight of another member - only to see them again a moment later - they are less likely to suspect a suddenly moving wall separated the member from the group and allowed a doppelganger to move in among them. If one of the group members tends to be the silent or standoffish type (or recently is due to some party arguement) they make an excellent choice for such, as the doppelganger might perhaps move among them for several rounds - even minutes - before they are found out.
Particle_Man
Explorer
The dopplegangers and panes of glass thing makes me think of those Marx Brothers scenes (was it Duck Soup?) where Groucho thinks that Chico is his reflection, but is having a hard time proving it as Chico is able to anticipate every trick that Groucho comes up with. Just like a telepathic doppleganger would? 
