D&D 5E House rule for in combat healing and yoyo at 0 HP

[Reynard]

There’s other ways to stop yo-yo.

a. Don’t drop characters at all - make 0 hp function differently.

Interesting.

"Characters with 0HP are dying and make a death saving throw at the end of their turn. If they have taken damage since the end of their last turn, the save is made at disadvantage. Characters with the dying condition may not take reactions and must expend 2 feet of movement for every 1 foot moved. Dying characters have disadvantage on attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks."

 

[FrogReaver]

Interesting.

"Characters with 0HP are dying and make a death saving throw at the end of their turn. If they have taken damage since the end of their last turn, the save is made at disadvantage. Characters with the dying condition may not take reactions and must expend 2 feet of movement for every 1 foot moved. Dying characters have disadvantage on attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks."

Yea. Something like that. If you make the penalties all or nothing for being at zero you are just replacing yo-yo with neo yo-yo though.

You also have to add some reason to heal the person before 0 - most are focusing on penalties for dropping to 0 that extend after you are not at 0. Another option would be to give healing spells a bonus when targeting greater than 0 hp Ally’s. I kind of like 1 turn defensive buff. But temp hp or even an offensive buff could make sense.

 

[Reynard]

Yea. Something like that. If you make the penalties all or nothing for being at zero you are just replacing yo-yo with neo yo-yo though.

Well, the problem is (ostensibly) the break in action economy as well as the downed player feeling left out. So if you keep them up and able to act but at a diminished capacity, you can solve both problems. So they really aren't yo-yo-ing they are just suffering under a condition not so different from being slowed or whatever.

 

[GMMichael]

So... is the actual problem being addressed really 'yo-yo healing', or is it the game not being lethal enough? Because most of the solutions are 'make the game more lethal' and if that's not the intent, it's just punishing players for a game design decision.

Good post. Worth dissecting...
OP seemed to state this problem: the PCs won't heal until AFTER hitting zero hit points.

Killing them for going down (when in-combat healing cannot possibly prevent it), imposing penalties that ensure they'll be doing down again soon, making it more likely they'll die if they go down again--none of it actually fixes the issue of people coming back up from 0, it just tacks on an all new, all different problem.

Punishing people to discourage a problem doesn't solve the problem is it's not one the punished person can't control.

The punished persons can control this: they can use their healing BEFORE dropping. But they don't, since that healing seems wasteful. Adding more punishment makes that healing seem less wasteful.

I'm taking 30 points of damage a round and the cleric is on a bad roll and giving me 12 back, it doesn't matter if I see the DM cutting a hickory switch and taking practice swings on the other side of the table, I'm going to go down to zero, either because the DM miscalculated (or worse used CR) or because the expected heals aren't keeping up with damage output--neither of which is my fault, but I'm the one about to have a sore red bum for some reason? That doesn't seem right.

So, negotiating, changing tactics, or fleeing didn't occur to you? That also doesn't seem right.

One thing I've not seen considered as a solution to whack a mole is to have healing spells provide a 1 turn defensive buff to conscious allies.

There are already spells that provide defensive buffs. If your party has a rogue, he can be scouting for possible enemies. If your party has a cleric that listens to the rogue, she can cast defensive buffs before that battle starts. Like she should be casting healing spells before you see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Besides not knowing when to run away, there's another bad assumption going through this thread: that enemies FIGHT FOREVER. Maybe your tank's max health is 50. Why are we assuming that the opponent will neatly survive long enough to knock off all 50 of those points? If the tank gets healed while fighting, her max health is effectively 58. Or more. Why are we assuming that the opponent will survive long enough to knock off all of those points, too?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Good post. Worth dissecting...
OP seemed to state this problem: the PCs won't heal until AFTER hitting zero hit points.

So what is being achieved by ignoring the problem that makes doing that absolutely not worth it and going straight for punishment.

The punished persons can control this: they can use their healing BEFORE dropping.

No, they can't.

5e combat healing sucks. It does not restore enough HP to counteract a single round of damage, so it doesn't actually prevent the target from going down. That's why people wait until someone goes down: it just means nothing before that point.

But they don't, since that healing seems wasteful.

Because it is.

Adding more punishment makes that healing seem less wasteful.

It doesn't. It just means healing is entirely worthless in combat instead of a desperate last resort. The punishment means the one reasonable use of combat healing is also gone.

So, negotiating, changing tactics, or fleeing didn't occur to you? That also doesn't seem right.

1) How often do you negotiate with the many, many essentially mindless predators that populate the D&D world? Math says you're not fighting something you can negotiate with.

2) What tactics? Those were complex and bad. Attack Attack Attack. Also, if you're taking hits that will drive you to zero, what are you even doing to mitigate that?

3) This is a game of heroic fantasy. Fleeing should not be something that gets bandied about. And even then, most monsters are faster then you. If you try to flee, you will go to 0 tired and then the DM will punish you for that too. Or punish you for trying to evade the encounter like in the Wish thread.

Basically, there is no winning.

 

[CreamCloud0]

if reviving a downed ally was an explicit spell(or even cantrip) that was separate from recovering HP i wonder how much that would do to reduce yo-yo healing, as healing an ally would put them in the positive stopping them from making death saving throws but you'd need to spend another action to actually get them up and fighting again, letting allies go down would be more impactful on the action economy and resource expenditure.

 

[ad_hoc]

I wish you were right, but I don't think you are. I think saving your healing spells until someone goes down is absolutely the correct strategy under the 5e rules as written. When a player gets reduced to -20 hit points and you Healing Word them for 4, you end up healing then for 24. How is that not the correct plan?


That's a pretty good idea! Extremely simple but effective.

For healing word yes but there are higher level spells that can help manage HP.

Ultimately it is best to either take down enemies or have protection than healing.

Under 5e rules going down to 0 is deadly I just think from what I hear online most DMs don't make it so.

Fighting a giant or two isn't a big threat but add in 20 wolves and they get much scarier.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

most monsters are faster then you

This is totally a very relevant thing. Even if the players want to flee, they cannot (and that's before one of the party drops). It's a very rare monster that's slower than 30 feet.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

This is totally a very relevant thing. Even if the players want to flee, they cannot (and that's before one of the party drops). It's a very rare monster that's slower than 30 feet.

Chase Rules - DMG p 252

Also, not every monster fights to the death and not every monster will pursue fleeing/retreating PCs. Helpful resource: The Monsters Know What They’re Doing

 

[Vaalingrade]

Chase Rules - DMG p 252

Also, not every monster fights to the death and not every monster will pursue fleeing/retreating PCs. Helpful resource: The Monsters Know What They’re Doing

The same DM that has every monster double tap PCs to make sure they die and soft bans healing in combat via massive punishments for using it the only time it matters isn't going to think about whether or not the monster chases you down and kills you.