House Rules for Netted Characters?

[Panask]

Any house rules on this?

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According to the 3.5 PHB, when you hit a character with a net, the "entangled character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty on Dexterity, can move at only half speed, and cannot charge or run.... If the entangled creature attempts to cast a spell, it must make a DC 15 Concentration check or be unable to cast the spell."

Have there been any clarifications on these rules? When you're netted, can you freely:

- Use any melee weapons, including a longsword or a spiked chain?
- Use any ranged weapon, including a bow or a sling?
- Move and move?
- Take a 5-ft. step and make a full attack?
- Change weapons?
- Get things out of your pack?

Many of these things would seem to me to be diffiuclt or impossible if you're entangled in a net (as opposed, say, to being affected by an entangle spell), but I haven't seen any rules that mention them.

Also, if you try to cut yourself out of a net from the inside, what kind of weapons can you use? Do you have to make an attack roll, and how much damage do you do? Does a net have a hardness? And what if you're trying to cut someone out from the outside?

I'm also interested in people's house rules on these subjects, but I realize that's another forum.

Much thanks,

Panask
Servitar to Baldur
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[Panask]

*ping*

Surely I haven't stumbled across the only area in D&D where people haven't developed house rules, have I?

Any and all ideas are welcome.

Panask
Servitar to Baldur

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Any house rules on this?

***
According to the 3.5 PHB, when you hit a character with a net, the "entangled character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty on Dexterity, can move at only half speed, and cannot charge or run.... If the entangled creature attempts to cast a spell, it must make a DC 15 Concentration check or be unable to cast the spell."

Have there been any clarifications on these rules? When you're netted, can you freely:

- Use any melee weapons, including a longsword or a spiked chain?
- Use any ranged weapon, including a bow or a sling?
- Move and move?
- Take a 5-ft. step and make a full attack?
- Change weapons?
- Get things out of your pack?

Many of these things would seem to me to be diffiuclt or impossible if you're entangled in a net (as opposed, say, to being affected by an entangle spell), but I haven't seen any rules that mention them.

Also, if you try to cut yourself out of a net from the inside, what kind of weapons can you use? Do you have to make an attack roll, and how much damage do you do? Does a net have a hardness? And what if you're trying to cut someone out from the outside?

I'm also interested in people's house rules on these subjects, but I realize that's another forum.

Much thanks,

Panask
Servitar to Baldur
***

Hi, I'm new to this site and have never had to deal with nets used in combat before, but your questions intrigued me. While the rules are set as you listed, I think some alterations are due for some of those situations you asked about:

1) I would say only light weaps would be usable, and if you wish to strike at other creatures, instead of the net itself, only piercing weapons would work.

2) I'm skeptical it'd be possible, but maybe you could fire ranged weapons at a massive penalty, - 4, perhaps?

3 and 4) If you are simply bound in a net, then movement should probably be reduced to half or even just 5 feet a round, as well as require a balance check. If someone is holding onto the net, or is holding a pole it is attached to, it should follow the rules for moving a grapple. In a way, I see being netted as being in a grapple.

5) Depends. Dagger from scabbard on belt? Sure. Unslinging the longsword off your back? Good luck.

6) I think retrieving things from your pack should still be do-able, as long as the item is reasonably small. Probably should step up the time required to a standard or full-round action, though.

As far as net hardness and hitpoints, I have no clue. Maybe if they list figures for hemp rope in the PHB, you can work off of that. Just some suggestions, sorry if they didn't help much.

--Stream of the Sky

 

[Marius Delphus]

I don't think any house rules are required. Working solely from the description of the net, the definition of "entangled," and the rules on object hardness and hp:

- You're not limited to, say, light weapons (cf. grappled, swallowed whole), so you can use any weapon you have with the stated -2 penalty to hit. (You must also take into account the -4 penalty to DEX (an additional -2 to hit) if you are attacking with Weapon Finesse or with a ranged weapon.)
- You're not prohibited from taking a double move while entangled (though your speed is halved), but if the net wielder beats you in an opposed STR check, you can only move within the radius the trailing rope allows (10 feet distance from the net wielder, as that's the net's maximum range and, by extension, the length of the trailing rope). IMC, I assume that if the entangled target wins the STR check and moves more than 10 feet from the net wielder, the net wielder has to drop the rope.
- You're not prohibited from taking full-round actions at all, so you can take a 5' step and make a full attack, assuming you either win the opposed STR check or you are moving within the radius the trailing rope allows. (I'm fairly sure that having your speed halved does not prohibit you from taking a 5' step.)
- You're not prohibited from working with your equipment, so you can change weapons or retrieve an object from your pack just as you could before being entangled.
- The net has 5 hp (stated in its description) and a hardness of 0 (no hardness stated in description, and double-check hardness of rope (0) for confirmation). Technically, you can use any sort of weapon, but I don't see a problem with house-ruling in a limit to only slashing weapons or piercing weapons that have some kind of knife-like edge. I think the net has an AC of 7 (10 -5 (no Dex) +1 (S size)), or 8 if you consider it two-handed (10 -5 (no Dex) +0 (M size)). I don't think there's any difference between attacking the net yourself and attacking a net entangling someone else (that is, no penalties to hit or possibility of hitting the entangled target); if there were, it seems to me that'd make getting hit with a net distinctly more un-fun. YMMV.

Now, if you want to make the net or "entangled" more restrictive, *that* would be a house rule. But going by the RAW, I think that's basically how the net works.

 

[ZuulMoG]

Wow do I disagree!

I don't think any house rules are required. Working solely from the description of the net, the definition of "entangled," and the rules on object hardness and hp:

- You're not limited to, say, light weapons (cf. grappled, swallowed whole), so you can use any weapon you have with the stated -2 penalty to hit. (You must also take into account the -4 penalty to DEX (an additional -2 to hit) if you are attacking with Weapon Finesse or with a ranged weapon.)

I would limit weapon usage (at the listed penalty) while netted to any weapon that can be reasonably wielded through the holes in the net, which is typically going to mean Tiny or Smaller. Any other weapon is simply unusable, no penalty, no Initiative modifier, just, plain, unusable. How realistic is it to allow someone trapped in a net to swing a zweihander or pluck a longbow?

- You're not prohibited from taking a double move while entangled (though your speed is halved), but if the net wielder beats you in an opposed STR check, you can only move within the radius the trailing rope allows (10 feet distance from the net wielder, as that's the net's maximum range and, by extension, the length of the trailing rope). IMC, I assume that if the entangled target wins the STR check and moves more than 10 feet from the net wielder, the net wielder has to drop the rope.

I would also allow the net handler to move with the netted victim, but this assumes movement is possible. Entanglement of the legs would reduce movement to a shuffle akin to Charlie Chaplin, perhaps a 5' step as a full-round action. Balance checks to avoid falling prone should be made, and modified by the Strength modifier of the net-wielder if positive.

- You're not prohibited from taking full-round actions at all, so you can take a 5' step and make a full attack, assuming you either win the opposed STR check or you are moving within the radius the trailing rope allows. (I'm fairly sure that having your speed halved does not prohibit you from taking a 5' step.)

All of which is simply ludicrous. No creature of humanoid bipedal form can possibly do any of these things while trapped in a net.

- You're not prohibited from working with your equipment, so you can change weapons or retrieve an object from your pack just as you could before being entangled.

I disagree. No weapon larger than Tiny should be allowed to be drawn (or object for that matter), and getting it should be at least one class of action longer than normal: a standard action instead of free, full-round instead of standard, or 2 full rounds instead of one.

- The net has 5 hp (stated in its description) and a hardness of 0 (no hardness stated in description, and double-check hardness of rope (0) for confirmation). Technically, you can use any sort of weapon, but I don't see a problem with house-ruling in a limit to only slashing weapons or piercing weapons that have some kind of knife-like edge. I think the net has an AC of 7 (10 -5 (no Dex) +1 (S size)), or 8 if you consider it two-handed (10 -5 (no Dex) +0 (M size)). I don't think there's any difference between attacking the net yourself and attacking a net entangling someone else (that is, no penalties to hit or possibility of hitting the entangled target); if there were, it seems to me that'd make getting hit with a net distinctly more un-fun. YMMV.

Striking a net hung on a frame or stretched across a pathway with a blunt weapon could well tear it, but while it is wrapped around someone, the only thing a blunt weapon is good for is using it for a coup-de-grace on them while they're stuck in the net. Ditto piercing weapons, although something like an arrowhead would make a serviceable 'knife' for cutting one's way out. Simply striking a net wrapped around someone to free them from it should certainly cause the trapped victim to suffer full weapon damage. Freeing someone from a net with an edged weapon should be at least a standard action with a Reflex or Dexterity check to avoid cutting the vicitm as well, and probably ought to be a full-round action unless the rescuer's BAB is 10 or higher, or some similar limt is imposed.

Now, if you want to make the net or "entangled" more restrictive, *that* would be a house rule. But going by the RAW, I think that's basically how the net works.

Clearly, the RAW is flawed, incomplete, and utterly inadequate as regards net entanglement.