How a DM can counter cheesy PC tactics w/o using cheesy DM tactics.

[drnuncheon]

First, if you're blind, you don't threaten the area around you. (I think -- I'm having trouble finding a rules-cite on this, so I could be wrong).

Checking under 'blinded' in the DMG (p83) doesn't note a lack of threatening - although it would certainly be reasonable to only allow someone to get an AoO against an opponent they were aware of.

Scent is almost as good as blindsight, except that it doesn't eliminate the 50% miss chance, and it takes either a MEA or a standard action to use.

It takes a standard action to note the direction of the source. It then goes on to say that you can pinpoint the source of a scent if it moves within 5 ft of that source. One could combine that with the AoO above thus: move (half speed since you're blind), smell. When the rogue approaches within 5' to attack, you have him pinpointed, and thus can perform an AoO (with the 50% miss chance).

Hey, it's at least better than just randomly picking a square...

J

 

[Poltergeist]

Does the blindsight spell give a greater range than the 5 feet of the blindsight feat? If not, as long as the opponents are not crowded altogether within 5 feet of one another, the rogue might have a very hard time finding a target after he hit the first one...

 

[doktorstick]

Checking under 'blinded' in the DMG (p83) doesn't note a lack of threatening - although it would certainly be reasonable to only allow someone to get an AoO against an opponent they were aware of.

You can't make an AoO nor sneak attack when the opponent is concealed (50+%) (or is that cover?)

/ds

 

[Nappy MonkeyII]

Nail mentioned it already, run away.

Just retreat and fight on better ground. No seriously. Unless they are guardians sworn to defending a site, but then again something sworn to defending will be defeated.

The problem for the blindsighted attackers is then to stop the retreat, a bit harder than hacking.

Also casters should generally have the ability to counter darkness through light and dispel magic, very common spells both.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Two more suggestions:

1. High level barbarians or fighters with the blindfight feat. Uncanny dodge keeps characters from losing their dex when attacked by invisible opponents as does blindfight. All level 2+ barbarians have uncanny dodge and Blinfight is a great defensive feat for a fighter. So, let the rogue move in and then find out that he's up against someone who knows where he is and is able to rip him in half in a single full attack action.

2. Dire Bears. Scent+Improved Grab=Grappled and dead rogue.

3. Dispel the darkness. This isn't cheesy. It's reasonable, dependable tactics. Most PC spellcasters of clvl 5+ have a dispel magic. NPCs should to.

4. Summon devils to deal with the other PCs (who don't have blindsight up and are probably in the massive area of the Deeper Darkness). A bone devil could block the rogue off with a wall of Ice too. . . .

5. Run away. Live to fight another day. Scry the PCs when they're asleep, teleport in and kill them.

 

[0-hr]

I love the "run away" idea. Imagine a dungeon with 5 rooms leading up to the boss. As the darkness falls on each room, the bad guys there just scream and retreat into the next room. Then at the end, the party is looking at half a dozen encounters all rolled into one big fight (and a fight that is now expecting darkness to be used). That should wipe out the party pretty well, darkness or no.

 

[dvvega]

I don't know if it's been brought up (I could not find a reference) but doesn't sneak attack require the Rogue to be able to see the "sweet spot" for the attack.

Blindsight might let you locate the foe, but it wouldn't reveal intimate details of their armour, gaps for the sneak attack, or anything.

 

[Mallik]

The most important thing I can suggest here, and something I'd suggest to all GMs is this:

Make recurring villains.

Overarching enemies who come back over and over again, retooling their tactics to counter the PCs. It's not cheesy if it's in character. Heck, get the bad guys to mem daylights and such.

Have them send golems after the PCs. Whatever.

Remember that mantra: It isn't cheesy if it's in character.

Recurring villains shouldn't be stupid, otherwise they wouldn't resurface.

-Mallik

 

[AuraSeer]

I don't know if it's been brought up (I could not find a reference) but doesn't sneak attack require the Rogue to be able to see the "sweet spot" for the attack.

This is correct.

Blindsight might let you locate the foe, but it wouldn't reveal intimate details of their armour, gaps for the sneak attack, or anything.

Not true. Check the special abilities list.
Blindsight lets you ignore darkness, period. It does not allow you to see color, but that is its only restriction; otherwise it works just as well as normal sight.

 

[IceBear]

Which is why I've a houserule on the books that makes blindsight to not be sufficient to give sneak attacks.

I don't know if this is going to be offical of not in my campaign as no one has tried this tactic. I might just ban the spell, but if some how or another blindsight becomes a problem this is probably what I'll do.

IceBear