D&D 5E How about a fighter-based Kensei with 1 weapon?

[Elon Tusk]

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rJBzONFl-

 

[thethain]

Strike 1 - Doesn't follow standard archetype features.
Besides simply making it easier on everyone involved, dismissing the standards created with archetypes is a giant red flag signaling "I am not going to be able to list all my fancy abilities in the restraints of an archetype". Which is a good hint that it will not be balanced.

Strike 2 - Non-standard characters in abilities.
If no combination of the 26 standard english letter can create the phonetic sound you are hoping for, only about 1/100 players will be able to. Abilities can be given an eastern flavor in playing without making arbitrarily uncommon words as their descriptions. (Also embued isn't a thing.)

Strike 3 - Very obviously broken mechanics
Wait.. so if I choose a ranged weapon.. at level 2 with a 16 dex score I will have +9 to hit? At level 10 with 18 dex I will have +14 to hit? So I have a better chance to hit with the -5 penalty from sharpshooter than a regular fighter does making a standard attack with a sword?
No.
That not enough? At level 15 you get a repeating +3 to hit, bringing the attack bonus up to.. 5 (prof) +5 (double Prof) +5 (Dex) +2 (archery) +2 (living Weapon) + 3 (zero)= +17 to hit. So you could hit an Ancient Red Dragon on a roll of 5, against normal enemies you will basically only miss on 1s.

Wait, I double my proficiency bonus for initiative? But it doesn't even apply normally.. shouldn't that have maybe ramped up with just 1x to start with?

Also you just made the 2 fighter dip even more absurd. Oh for 2 levels I get Action Surge, Second Wind, a fighting style AND 2x prof on my attacks AND my initiative (?)! Hello practically mandatory dip for assassins!

The class is so designed to exploit the GWM/Sharpshooter Feat that you had to make a special mention of them in the class, as well as include them automatically.





I guess I want to know if YOU thought this was equivalent to say a Battlemaster fighter? Being limited to 1 weapon doesn't really matter if you are automatically guaranteed to have access to an increasingly powerful magical version of the weapon.

 

[cbwjm]

I'm not concerned that this archetype starts at level 1, however, I would probably try to retain more of the core fighter abilities such as indomitable instead of replacing it with Improved Pawa Buki. Essentially, I would change up the initial abilities, as you've done, reducing armour proficiency and weapon proficiency and then grant kensei abilities at levels 3, 7, 10, 15, and 18 as per a normal fighter subclass.

I get that this guy is meant to be awesome with a single weapon, but perhaps doubling proficiency is a little too much, especially with the magical bonus he gets at later levels.

Although, having said this, we have had an Unearthed Arcana on altering classes so I'm not exactly against this, I'd have to do a more in depth comparison of the fighter class abilities replaced but you should definitely aim to ensure that they are of approximately equal power. I'm liking what I see however, the kensei is a cool concept.

 

[Elon Tusk]

The reason I changed from the standard archetype and had it start at 1st level was because of the single-weapon focus (and I used the original Oriental Adventures kensei as a starting point). I thought the flavor of the class would warrant that this character wouldn't bother with other types of weapons - he's a true specialist. If I waited until 3rd level, then this flavor gets muddied, but I did see it as a fighter-base so didn't think it needed to be a brand new class.

I think I need to add that this, like UA material, is not balanced with multi-classing. My groups don't use multi-classing. I should probably make that explicit in the design.

Obviously this class is meant to be a glass cannon - the single weapon weapon is definitely more powerful than other weapons of its type, but in focusing on this weapon the kensei gives up utility: he is basically either melee or ranged, he is limited to one type of damage, he doesn't use a shield, he doesn't use heavy armor, he won't use a weapon (magical or not) not of his weapon type, etc. That's also why he gets an additional feature at 1st and 2nd levels.
Otherwise, as a fighter, he'd have two levels with drawbacks with no additional benefits.

Here is an update with some re-working based on the helpful suggestions above:
- restricted from multi-classing
- removed attack bonus at level 2
- changed "double proficiency bonus" to "add proficiency bonus" for initiative at level 2
- removed the critical hit bonus at level 9
- removed the disarm ability at level 10
- removed GWM/SS feature from level 13
- substituted Indomitable (at standard fighter levels) for existing features

 

[Ganymede81]

I think giving the Kensai a single weapon proficiency or limiting the ability to use Kensei powers with a single type of weapon is a blunder.

I would prefer something similar to requiring something similar to an Eldritch Blade's weapon bond instead: you can bond with one weapon per short rest and your Kensei abilities key off of that bonded weapon.

 

[Elon Tusk]

I think giving the Kensai a single weapon proficiency or limiting the ability to use Kensei powers with a single type of weapon is a blunder.

I would prefer something similar to requiring something similar to an Eldritch Blade's weapon bond instead: you can bond with one weapon per short rest and your Kensei abilities key off of that bonded weapon.

I enjoyed the kensei from the original Oriental Adventures where he focused on a single weapon, but in that iteration the kensei could only gain 1/2 the XP from fighting with other weapons. I thought limiting proficiency a better option. I enjoy the plus/minus that the power/restriction gives, mostly for the role-play possibilities.

You explain your personal preference, but I'd like to hear why you call a single-weapon user a "blunder."

 

[Ganymede81]

Oh, I think it is a mistake to create a class archetype that takes away abilities from the base class.

I also do not like turning a roleplay foible/flaw into an actual class weakness.

In my perspective, these two are poor design choices.

 

[the Jester]

Forgive me; this is harsh, but my honest assessment.

This is completely unbalanced compared to other fighter paths, and doesn't actually use the fighter as anything more than a chassis to graft MOAR POWER onto. If it ain't a fighter, don't use the fighter. You're breaking away from one of the great strengths of the 5e design (class and subclass) for no actual benefit I can determine, other than that it makes your class super badass. And that's only a benefit to your class, not to your game.

"But he only gets a single weapon!" is a fundamentally meaningless restriction. Flaw systems (which this is akin to) are inherently super-ultra-exploitable unless they are very well thought out. In this case, consider- why not take a bow and then just never get into melee? Or take a weapon you can use in melee or at range (e.g. hand axe) and then dual wield? There is no real drawback to this "drawback".

You've also given some benchmark abilities from other fighter subclasses (specifically, expanded crit range) to this guy, who is already overpowered without it.

There are also damn good reasons why 5e has shied away from single-weapon builds. Historically, they're problematic, because all your oomph is tied to that one weapon. What if this guy loses his only weapon before 10th level? And putting the 10th level ability that means your weapon can't be broken or whatever is just a way to make sure that what might arguably be one of this class' only balancing points go away completely.

The other arguable balance point is the no armor proficiency- which is pretty easy to get around with feats, or with training (if the DM allows armor proficiency to be earned via training), or magic items, or a friendly spellcaster. And if you DON'T get around it, you're not able to do your job in combat.

The maximum damage thing- starting at first level, no less!- is also pretty overpowered, in my opinion. You're essentially giving a great weapon fighter maximum damage on every hit until 5th level. Holy crap.

Sorry, dude, mechanically speaking, this is a hot mess.

 

[ThunderDM]

With homebrew a little bit goes a long way, and refluffing is almost always better.

You could have made a dwarf dracula defender or something cool and you made THIS?

 

[Elon Tusk]

In this case, consider- why not take a bow and then just never get into melee?

Because there are many times you can't avoid staying out of melee - sneak attacks, opponents with movement, close quarters, hoards, moving in to take an action, etc.

Or take a weapon you can use in melee or at range (e.g. hand axe) and then dual wield?

Dual wielding daggers or hand axes do less damage than one long sword used 2-handed.
And the maximum damage only applies to "a hit" not both.

What if this guy loses his only weapon before 10th level?

He likely carries more than one. And can make his own at 3rd level.
His one weapon can only do one type of damage type.
He's out of luck if he is disarmed and can't find the right weapon.
He can't use a magic weapon he finds of other types.

The other arguable balance point is the no armor proficiency- which is pretty easy to get around with feats, or with training (if the DM allows armor proficiency to be earned via training), or magic items, or a friendly spellcaster.

Except it says he "rejects armor" so no armor or shields; there is no shield feat anyway.
So there would be a need to pump Dex even if using a Str weapon.
And then any feats would prevent bonuses to Dex/Str and have to be used for defense instead of improving his weapon.

The maximum damage thing- starting at first level, no less!- is also pretty overpowered, in my opinion. You're essentially giving a great weapon fighter maximum damage on every hit until 5th level. Holy crap.

That's not the intent of the maximum damage. That is my fault for writing it ambiguously.
At first level, "This ability is regained on a short or long rest" should apply to everything in Saidai Damēj.

Starting at 7th level, maximum damage applies to about 1/3 of the attacks.