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D&D 1E How about a little love for AD&D 1E

Voadam

Legend
The only character that really wanted to keep one was the Fighter that was specialized in Trident since starting at L1. And he REALLY, REALLY wanted to keep Wave. But did give it over.

Now he's spending a lot of time thinking about how he can get it back. 🤣
In my 1e campaign one of the assassins was a follower of Poseidon and had been using a trident since level 1 until he found a defender scimitar. When they heard about the three weapons for White Plume Mountain he perked right up. :)
 

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James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Well, you knew this was coming.. 🤣🤣

I recently ran a group through WPM in an ongoing campaign and they did return the weapons. I'm absolutely certain that the fact that the party contained a Lawful Cavalier and Monk contributed HEAVILY to that decision as neither of those characters were willing to break their agreement to retrieve and return the weapons to their owners. The group was rewarded handsomely for the task.

The only character that really wanted to keep one was the Fighter that was specialized in Trident since starting at L1. And he REALLY, REALLY wanted to keep Wave. But did give it over.

Now he's spending a lot of time thinking about how he can get it back. 🤣
I can imagine group makeup would affect this a lot, but as Sacrosanct points out, there's a lot of tales of characters claiming to have them out in the wild.

What strikes me as interesting is that these players never consider that the owners are a threat to overcome as well, when they can take the reward they were going to give your party, and uses it to hire another party to come after you...

As an aside, the Adventure League version of the adventure is pretty mean; if anyone keeps one of the weapons, the whole party loses the adventure reward. And then characters who took the weapons get told that they aren't allowed to play in any other adventures until they divest themselves of them!
 

Emrico

Adventurer
I can imagine group makeup would affect this a lot, but as Sacrosanct points out, there's a lot of tales of characters claiming to have them out in the wild.

What strikes me as interesting is that these players never consider that the owners are a threat to overcome as well, when they can take the reward they were going to give your party, and uses it to hire another party to come after you...

As an aside, the Adventure League version of the adventure is pretty mean; if anyone keeps one of the weapons, the whole party loses the adventure reward. And then characters who took the weapons get told that they aren't allowed to play in any other adventures until they divest themselves of them!

My campaign is 1E and it was made VERY clear to the party that there would be repercussions if they kept any of the weapons (declared outlaws in the City of Gtryhawk, hunted by other, likely more powerful adventuring groups hired by the owners, etc) and those were all things they wanted no part of. So now the Trident-Specialist is trying to gather enough cash to make the owner an offer for Wave, or enough cash to finance a heist to steal it.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
My campaign is 1E and it was made VERY clear to the party that there would be repercussions if they kept any of the weapons (declared outlaws in the City of Gtryhawk, hunted by other, likely more powerful adventuring groups hired by the owners, etc) and those were all things they wanted no part of. So now the Trident-Specialist is trying to gather enough cash to make the owner an offer for Wave, or enough cash to finance a heist to steal it.
At this point, I'd go to the local Temple of Poseidon; surely some private collector owning a holy relic of their God can't be something they're ok with!
 

Lucky. I've played several Paladins and I only had a Holy Avenger once. Though, to be fair, that thing is busted to all hell so I guess I don't mind too much, save for the fact the ability to use one is described as a friggin' class feature!

I had a paladin back then, but I don't recall if he had a Holy Avenger or not. He died fighting in a Githyanki citadel on the Astral Plane and that's a fond memory of 1e for me.

In 2e, a new player showed up with a high level paladin with a Holy Avenger...but he also said he rolled all 18s in every stat, so I'm pretty sure that he just made that character up entirely not long before sitting down to game.
 

AD&D has its problems, but why does the first reply have to be one crapping all over the game the OP wants to talk good things about? Just because it doesn't technically have a "+" sign shouldn't be carte blanche to crap all over the OP's desire. Just move on. No one is forcing anyone to post negative things to thread if you disagree.
Many of the best D&D campaigns I played in were AD&D 1E (and much of what made them great was the system and spirit of that edition). The DMG remains one of my favorite reads to go back to
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
As I see it, in AD&D there are three types of skills. (Of course, this analysis is my own inference and interpolation; the design principles are never stated in the books.)

1. There are some "highly reliable" skills that are successful in the range of 80-100%, such as the druid's nature lore, assassin's disguise, barbarian's first aid, ranger's tracking, and thief's climbing. Typically these skills fall into what we would call the exploration pillar today. They are reliable either because the consequences of failure are not very important (e.g. tracking, first aid) or so dire (e.g. disguise) that any large chance of failure would make them not worth using.

2. Then there are some "difficult, can't even try if untrained skills" of which the thief skills are the archetype, but there are a few other examples such as bard charm & lore, and barbarian detection of magic and illusion. The design principle for these skills seems to be that succeeding gives you an advantage, but failing doesn't have a major consequence. A thief who fails detect traps is no worse off than before--they may still get a 1-2 in 6 roll to avoid (a frequent mechanic in modules) or use a creative approach to mitigate the risk. Failing to hide/move silently does not mean you are detected, it just means your chance of surprise remains the default. At least, that is how I ran it--if failing a detect traps roll meant setting off the trap, no one would ever try it!

3. The middle ground is when PCs attempt challenging tasks that require no special training. In 1e, we have some d6-based examples of such tasks, like open doors and the implicit perception vs stealth opposed check of surprise. ....
You're on to something in saying there's three (or even more?) different types of skills. That said, I think the answer is to use different mechanics for each type rather than even trying to unify them all. If nothing else, by type:

1. The "highly reliable" ones should use d% to resolve rather than anything less granular, such that (as with the 1e Thief's climbing) the odds of success can go up incrementally by a % or two each level, also the DM has a lot more granulrity available with which to modify the odds for any given in-game situation. And you've got room for a less-than-5% chance of failure which a d20 doesn't allow for.

2. Regardless of what dice are used, the mechanic here IMO often wants to be one of gradated results rather than a binary fail-succeed - fail the roll by a bit, no big deal; fail by a lot, you've got a problem. Example: finding and disarming traps - fail by just a bit and nothing untoward happens, fail by a lot and you've set it off. Fail to move silently by a bit, you're still at normal surprise chance; fail by a lot and you've made a racket somehow. Bard charm isn't even a "skill" in my view, it's more like an at-will spell effect and thus probably wants to use spell-like saving throws. Bard lore is another one where gradating the results really makes a difference: if you barely succeed on the roll you know a bit but not much, if you mightily succeed you know far more; if you fail by a bit you don't know anything but if you fail by a lot you think you know all kinds of stuff but the legends have been twisted into untruths over time.

What "a bit" and "a lot" represent in hard numbers might almost be a table-by-table decision.

3. Roll-under-ability covers the huge majority of these, no need to mess with it.
 

Voadam

Legend
3. Roll-under-ability covers the huge majority of these, no need to mess with it.
AD&D nonweapon proficiencies used roll under and it is an easy to implement and apply system in a D&D game.

Nevertheless I particularly came to not care for roll-under as a resolution mechanic. It adds to the reverse AD&D bell curve effect for stats where really high ones are super useful and the stat generation method and luck of the roll are both huge impacts on the character's mechanical competency.

It means that B/X type 3d6 in order characters will fail about half the time while Unearthed Arcana human rolls will often have a lot of things that succeed almost no matter what even with the typical adjustments of +/- 1 to 4. It also means that mechanically it pays off to have the characters with the best stats for the job do the job such as sweet talking someone as the difference between a 9 charisma and a 15 are substantial in roll under.

I came to want targets closer to a specific task modified a bit by stats rather than targets of straight stat. So I favor the core of the 5e system a bit, particularly with advantage for teaming up on a skill leading to more teamwork and less soloing.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
AD&D nonweapon proficiencies used roll under and it is an easy to implement and apply system in a D&D game.

Nevertheless I particularly came to not care for roll-under as a resolution mechanic. It adds to the reverse AD&D bell curve effect for stats where really high ones are super useful and the stat generation method and luck of the roll are both huge impacts on the character's mechanical competency.

It means that B/X type 3d6 in order characters will fail about half the time while Unearthed Arcana human rolls will often have a lot of things that succeed almost no matter what even with the typical adjustments of +/- 1 to 4. It also means that mechanically it pays off to have the characters with the best stats for the job do the job such as sweet talking someone as the difference between a 9 charisma and a 15 are substantial in roll under.
Indeed; though it kinda makes in-character sense that the best person/people for a given task be the one(s) who get put forward to do that task: "You're the persuasive one - you talk us through that guardpost" or "You're the strong one - you lift the damn portcullis!", etc.

The UA rolling-up rules (along with many other things in that book) were bad news.
I came to want targets closer to a specific task modified a bit by stats rather than targets of straight stat.
Oh, don't get me wrong: when I use this the target is rarely just the straight stat. :) There's often modifiers all over the place based on the situation, the difficulty, some abilities of the character(s), and so forth.
 

ilgatto

How inconvenient

Oh man, I LOVED Jim Holloway’s art so much!!

Definitely one of the all time greats.

holloway.jpg
 

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