How are Attack Bonus Calc for Monsters

[Delak]

I am really confused and starting to get a little frustrated about the stats in the Monster Manual and how Attack bonuses are calculated for each of the powers both melee/ranged or actual powers.

So for example it states that for a Kobold Wyrmpriest it uses a spear
+7 vs AC, 1d8 damage.

How is the +7 calculated?

Looking at the DMG for creating your own monsters it states that its a combination of level and role. So the example above would be
3 + 7 = 10

If its suppose to use the character rules for weilding weapons it would be:
1/2 level + abilitly mod + weapon bonus
1 + 0 + 2 = 3

As you can see both are way off. I have read on the Wizards forum that this and the AC are both a tweaked number. Thats fine but how is the baseline calculated and why isnt that what is represented in the MM. I am all for tweaking a number here and there based on the creature but we need some concert why to have the baseline.

Also as I look at this in regards to damage one of the other kobolds wields a spear also but has a low strength giving it a minus this however is not shown in the damage expression. Do we minus it or not?

 

[ki11erDM]

I asked the same thing a few days ago and the reply on these boards was "play testing". Which sucks.

 

[Alkiera]

I'd just point out that 7 is pretty much halfway between 3 and 10. That is probably a decent guideline. Note that the DragonShield has the same issue; Shortsword with +7 vs. AC, when the DMG suggests 7+level (9) and the PC rules say 1/2 level(1) + str(2) + prof(3) = 6. In this case, too, 7 is halfway, if you round down instead of up.

Really, the monster method seems to be 'Here's some guidelines based on monster roles and stuff. When you set calculated stats, look at the default system (Stat+1/2 level+mod) and the guidelines, and adjust as needed." They seem to have used 'Average std and guideline, round up or down by feel.'

 

[keterys]

The wyrmpriest's weapon attack is only there for opportunity attacks pretty much, it's not particularly meaningful.

 

[ExploderWizard]

4E is not an edition to inquire where numbers come from. Adjust all bonuses/penalties as you see fit as DM. If a reason is required then "because (insert monster name here) is cool like that" is a fine answer.

 

[jeff0]

As far as I can tell, it's because they decided simplifying the DM's job was more important than symmetry.

PC attacks/defenses go up by something close to one per level. Between the 1/2 level bonus, ability score increases, and magic items, the PCs numbers go up by an average of around .85 per level. Feats, powers, and paragon features hopefully make up for the rest.

Monster attacks/defenses go up by one per level. It's much simpler. No magic items or the like are required.

 

[Delak]

To me its not simpler and makes for adjusting the monster tougher for some of the simple things.

For example if I take my Kobold Skirmisher who as a Spear attack +6 vs AC and damage of 1d8. Str of 8 (-1) and he is next to a magic circle that gives him a +4 Str. Shouldn't his attack go up by 1 to +7 and damage be 1d8+1?

Same thing with AC. The Kobold Skirmisher has AC 15 wears hide armor and a Dex 16 (+3) where does the 15 come from? What if I wanted to give him chain mail armor. The rules in the dmg say take the ac - 10 - dex this number is the effective armor bonus. If that number is lower then the new armor bonus the creature will benefit from the new armor. So if I take that example 15-10-3 = +2 this does not equal the armor bonus of hide.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Monster role + Monster level + DM fudge factor.

PCs add half thier level to everything they do, but get to add all kinds of fiddly power and feat and race and enhancement bonuses to them. Monsters just add 1 per level, plain & simple.

This gives your PC a good guideline to shoot for. If you're not advancing all your numbers by one per level, in general, you're below par. If you're generally keeping up with a 1-per-level boost, you're keeping up with the treadmill. If you've got a number advancing at better than one per level, you're doing pretty good.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

To me its not simpler and makes for adjusting the monster tougher for some of the simple things.

For example if I take my Kobold Skirmisher who as a Spear attack +6 vs AC and damage of 1d8. Str of 8 (-1) and he is next to a magic circle that gives him a +4 Str. Shouldn't his attack go up by 1 to +7 and damage be 1d8+1?

Same thing with AC. The Kobold Skirmisher has AC 15 wears hide armor and a Dex 16 (+3) where does the 15 come from? What if I wanted to give him chain mail armor. The rules in the dmg say take the ac - 10 - dex this number is the effective armor bonus. If that number is lower then the new armor bonus the creature will benefit from the new armor. So if I take that example 15-10-3 = +2 this does not equal the armor bonus of hide.

I think it would have been easier to write: calculate the difference AC differences between the two armors and apply it to the AC.

And if you do this on purpose, all the time, better advance the level of the monster, since it is getting more powerful then it should be for his level. But that is noted in the advancement guidelines.

The problem in trying to do it in any other way is that the level and XP values are supposed to be "fair" and balanced against the level advancement rate and abilities of characters of that level. And this balance is only achieved by the numbers given in the stat-block. If you change them, the numbers are off.
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This, of course, does not help the slightest in figuring out why monsters have attacks or defenses that can't be replicated either by the guidelines or by the PC rules.
But remember: The guidelines are not hard rules. You can change stuff around. Sometimes you might do this for a theme, sometimes from play-test results. Monsters of the same level might all have the same XP, but they still represent a certain continuum of power. If you don't exceed the guidelines suggested values to much, you should stay in that continuum.

 

[Jhaelen]

For example if I take my Kobold Skirmisher who as a Spear attack +6 vs AC and damage of 1d8. Str of 8 (-1) and he is next to a magic circle that gives him a +4 Str. Shouldn't his attack go up by 1 to +7 and damage be 1d8+1?

Sorry, but that's a bad example. In 4E there aren't any effects that increase attributes for combat purposes.
Use the 'Sacred Circle' from DMG p68: It grants +2 to attack rolls.

Same thing with AC. The Kobold Skirmisher has AC 15 wears hide armor and a Dex 16 (+3) where does the 15 come from? What if I wanted to give him chain mail armor. The rules in the dmg say take the ac - 10 - dex this number is the effective armor bonus. If that number is lower then the new armor bonus the creature will benefit from the new armor. So if I take that example 15-10-3 = +2 this does not equal the armor bonus of hide.

Yup. I'm a bit annoyed by this, too. The suggested method does rarely work.
It's probably easier to just grant the monster the difference between the armor bonuses. I.e. the Kobold Skirmisher will not benefit from wearing chainmail because hide + Dex = 6 and chainmail is also +6. It would just slow it down for no gain.