How are people supposed to get jobs?

[wingsandsword]

Okay, I'm getting pretty frustrated with the job market out there.

Here's my situation:

I've got a Bachelor of Arts in History, and I'm 3 Credit Hours shy of a second degree in Political Science. In terms of job experience I've got about six months working a student job as an assistant in the library, and a couple of months working at an IT Help Desk (I would have worked that job longer, I liked it a lot and was good at it, but there were serious scheduling issues with conflicts with my classes), I did an internship at a local prosecutor's office for a few months one summer (I was pretty good at my job there and really liked it, but it was only a summer internship), and I worked retail in a department store for a few months when I took a semester off (didn't care much for that, I but could do it), and I just worked a couple of months as a temp in a warehouse (the only job I could find, I hated it, and I would have kept working there but I was terminated out of the blue one day, such is the lot of a temp).

In terms of job skills, I can type at around 75 words per minute, I had a lot of classes in legal-related subject matter including legal research, I can program in C++ (but it doesn't matter because nobody wants a programmer who doesn't have a CS degree), and I can speak some Spanish and a little Japanese.

I've tried to get a job as a Legal Assistant/Legal Secretary, since I've got a lot of related education, and the internship I had in a law office was probably my best employment experience, and I would like to go to law school when I can get the funding (I've taken the LSAT and did decently well, but coming up with the huge tuition isn't going to be easy). However, I don't know how anybody actually gets a job like that. Almost every Legal Assistant or Legal Secretary job out there I've seen requires at least 2 or 3 years of experience, even ones labeled "entry level". In almost a year of hunting, applying to dozens and dozens of jobs in that line of work, I've only had two interviews for the only two jobs in that vein I've seen posted that didn't mandate years of experience, which of course I didn't get the job (each one had over a dozen people applying for it apparently from what I was told at both offices). I've even had employment agencies call me back about them on two occasions, to yell at me for wasting their time in applying for a job I didn't have the listed requirements for!

(I guess those job hunting tips on Monster.com to apply for jobs you really want if you don't strictly meet the requirements because supposedly most employers are flexible about requirements aren't very good tips)

I've tried to get a job at local stores, but I'm increasingly convinced that those little computer kiosks they set up for job applications are there largely to make it easier for them to ignore applications. Even most "big box" stores I've applied to work at don't return calls from my applications, and when they do call me in for interviews I don't get hired. I don't understand why though, I go in in my best interview suit, impeccably dressed with a calm, confident and professional demeanor. Given the rude service by disheveled employees I've often received at these stores, I can't imagine how they passed an interview like that where I didn't.

I've applied at local temp agencies. Besides the one warehouse job, I've gotten nothing but silence from them. I've even gotten e-mails from temp agencies saying they can't help me get a job and to only come back to them when I have more "skills and experience". Apparently typing at 75 wpm and a Bachelor's Degree isn't enough for basic clerical work according to them, and I thought people went to temp agencies to get experience, not once they were experienced.

I'm applying for every job I can find. In over a half-year of job hunting I had very little luck in finding a job. It seems like every "entry level" job listing I can find requires 2 or 3 years of job experience, or requires a highly specialized degree. I've got my resume on Monster.com and Careerbuilder.com, and apply to jobs all the time through there, I look through the help wanted ads in the paper.

I get a lot of response e-mails from applications, politely worded "get lost" e-mails saying they are looking for people who more perfectly fit what they are looking for (even for "entry level" jobs where they are just wanting somebody with a degree and don't specify much of anything else, even when I meet every requirement they list apparently I don't meet them enough, according to the form e-mail).

I have had a handful of job offers. . .but they all pan out to be scams on closer inspection. Check on the company and nobody's ever heard of them despite them claiming to be a huge company (and the website is very amateurish), make vague claims of sky-high pay and unlimited potential, but clam up on details, their offices are tiny spaces in bad parts of town, and they want to move forward with signing paperwork (but I have to pay for training/certification/licensing type expenses up front). My Sense Motive checks were going off like crazy there.

I just honestly am at wits end on how to seek a job. Going into places and asking for an application leads to me filling out an application that never gets responded to. Applying to places online just leads to "get lost" e-mails (if that, normally I just don't hear anything back ever).

Anybody here run into problems like this? Anybody have any advice on job hunting?

 

[Jeysie]

Anybody here run into problems like this? Anybody have any advice on job hunting?

Oh, yeah. Everything you just said sounds a lot like the sort of things I've gone through, even if the details are different.

I never went to college myself, so I've been even more screwed. I spent the first several years of my work experience as a cashier in retail, not because I'm remotely suited for the work, but because it's the only work that would hire people with little to no really good experience. And it sounds like you haven't even been able to find that. :/

I finally broke into office work and now have a few years of it under my belt, but it's all been part time work until recently, which doesn't pay well, plus I kept getting laid off. I finally landed a full time office assistant job at my most recent job, but in January I found myself laid off again. Sigh.

I totally understand about the resumes and temp agencies, too, since I've had similar problems. The few places I apply to that respond always claim I don't have the right skills/experience, even though I know I've done almost everything there is to do in an office, including all the things they listed in their ad. Meanwhile, there are a lot of office jobs that require a college degree for some dumb reason (I'm sorry, but I know there is nothing about being an office assistant that requires a college degree!), or they require QuickBooks which equally leaves me out. I find myself wishing I had the money to go get an accounting degree (but then, if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't need a new job!)

As for the temp agencies, I always score 100% on their little test thingys, and they always claim to be impressed with my skills and years in office stuff, yet they never have anything for me except the occasional really short term assignment or grunt job. (I once spent a week doing nothing but feeding a giant stack of papers into a shredder for a company. Yeah, it paid fine for what I did and I needed the money, but come on. I have all this experience with Word, Excel, filing, proofreading, answering phones, playing IT geek, etc., and the best they can give me is Human Paper Feed? Sigh.)

So yeah, I definitely feel where you're coming from... it's just ridiculous... especially considering the number of morons out there who *do* manage to land jobs. I wish I had some answers... I don't even have a year to look. My unemployment runs out in 6 months, so if I don't either find something or get lucky and have business pick up again enough at my recent job for them to hire me back, I'm toast.

And the only reason I got that recent job to begin with is because I'm best friends with a guy who works there already. I guess that's what it boils down to... it seriously is all in who you know. Unfortunately my one ticket there has already been used up.

 

[Lockridge]

Wow,
Theres a lot to your post.
I am a professional who spent 2 years after graduation trying to find the kind of job I went to school for so I know it can be frustrating.

Ok, some points off the top of my head:

1. You have two degrees: one in Arts and one in Poli Sci (close to finishing anyway). You now want a third degree in Law. You first need to take responsibility for your own bad planning. I wish I could be gentler but some companies will put you further down on the list since your background seems unfocused. If you want a Law degree you will have to work at a sh_t job to get it. No one will take you seriously in the fields you mentioned until you have a degree. The one exception is someone without a degree but a lot of experience and usually their own client base. I wouldn't hire a programmer without a CS degree. Would you (especially if you have a million dollar client on the line who'll sue you for getting something wrong)?

2. Your lack of focus also suggests that you may be overqualified and therefore would not be happy. 75 words a minute is very good but with a couple of degrees in your back pocket you're not likely to get clerical work. I had this problem when I graduated. I was starving but employers would look at my degree and pass on me thinking that I was overqualified.

3. Employment agencies should never critisize you for applying for a job without meeting the requirements. I assume that when you did apply you didn't lie about your qualifications. Its their job to screen people - if they can't then thats their problem. Keep applying.

4. You say you are impeccably dressed when you apply for jobs with retailers. Maybe you shouldn't be. Read your audience. If I apply for a job with Wal-Mart in my best suit they will most certainly pick the jeans-and-t-shirt guy who comes in after me who has that kind of work experience on his resume.

5. Temp agencies are deceptive. They are not there to give you experience even for sh_t pay. They are there to make money for themselves. That means that they will consistently pick someone with experience over you because they wish to impress their clients. Unless you are proven to them you will be a last pick. This was a mistake I made when I first started too. They don't look at you and say "hey, we haven't given good old wingsandsword a job lately - I guess its his turn." No way. I didn't get anywhere with temp agencies on a professional level until I had over 5 years experience.

6. I sympathize with you on the scam jobs. I've had potential employers waste my time (and busfare) because they were "just looking around but there's no real position" or "we're waiting on funding but my HR people need something to fill their day". And of course there are the "great careers in selling xx" scams.

My advice:

1. You wasted time and money in getting two degrees that you don't seem to want to use in the workplace. You must own up to this and pay that price in time by getting a degree and then working in that field. Here's how you do it:

2. Create more than one resume. The resume for Wal-mart should read with only general job experience. Remove the degrees from that resume. Remove the programming. Know your audience and dress or talk with that in mind.

3. Persevere. Keep applying for the type of job you would actually like. You are in a competition. Remember that. Eventually you will win. Like I said, it took me almost 2 years to find a decent job. Up until then I was a temp or I was sweeping floors (with a degree in my pocket. A kid walking through the mall I was cleaning once asked snidely "how long did you go to school to learn to use that mop" I answered "Four years - I look forward to seeing you").

4. Did I say "know your audience"? Seriously I can't stress this enough. Every interviewer is human and therfore different. I once showed off my own programming abilities to a potential employer only to have him suggest that I might steal their clients. In that case bragging was bad. In other cases I've had employers tell temp agencies that I was too confident. Some interviewers will like a joke but some won't (NEVER JOKE BY THE WAY). When I graduated I had my degree on my resume and I couldn't get anything more than a temp job for a few weeks doing labour. Once I removed my degree I actually got a fairly good labour job that set me up for a year while looking for something better.

5. Try looking where others may not. Temp agencies and Monster and the like did nothing for me. After 2 years of looking I lucked out by seeing an ad in an obscure newspaper that was asking for someone in my line of work but they explained it as a clerical job. I lucked out. Other professionals likely missed the ad. That small company that couldn't afford to advertise or hire an agency hired me and I was there for 8 years as it grew to a large company. In that 8 years my salary more than doubled.

6. Talk to people you know who might themselves know other people. In other words: Network. Also, try joining a group. Try a church group. Doesn't matter if you're religious or not - you'd be surprised at the positive reaction you'll get from someone who knows you from church. I don't mean to be religious and I'm not promoting religion - its just a fact that if people know you from church (or temple or mosque or whatever) you can get a good recommendation for virtually nothing.

 

[Lockridge]

Oh, and keep in mind that temp agencies do "pad" thier job list. This means that that perfect job ad you see and apply for may be nothing more than a scam to get more people into their database so that they can do more boasting to attract clients.

There have been lots of times that I've seen the perfect job only to be told that they just found someone else or maybe they'll make up some problem with the job or my skills.

Job seeking sucks.

 

[Arkham]

It really is in who you know. Got any friends who are employed? Have them put in a good word for you with their bosses and apply there.

I've heard that for every 10 resumes you deliver, you might get 1 interview. And for every 10 interviews, you might get 1 job offer. So to have good odds on a job offer, you need to apply to 100 places.

Got any employed family? Make nepotism work in your favor!
Do volunteer work. Meet people, show them you are a good worker, and they might be able to hook you up. Got web development skills? Put something online, get some small amount of internet fame for doing something cool, perhaps someone interviewing you will have seen it and will remember you. ( Just not something embarrassing. )

 

[bento]

A few ideas:

Hands down, networking is the best way to find jobs. Keep in contact with your peers who graduated with you, especially in your degree area. Stay in touch with high school friends and even their parents. Last thing you want to do when you're looking for a job is to stay hidden. You need to be with people and don't be afraid to say you're looking for work.

Use your college career placement service if one is available.

Don't think about getting another degree, instead look at any quick technical certification you can get. I believe Microsoft offers some for their Office and Windows applications. Getting a certificiation like this takes a few months and gets you a leg up on the competition.

Widen your horizons. Your local public library is an excellent source for career books (and they are free if you return them on time). There's a series called "Great Jobs for __ Majors." Read through ones that are applicable to you.

Join the military, see the world and get real experience.

 

[Inferno!]

I've got a Bachelor of Arts in History, and I'm 3 Credit Hours shy of a second degree in Political Science.

Me too, I even graduated with honors - and it hasn't done me a bit of good other than to meet the minimum qualification of having a college degree.

I guess those job hunting tips on Monster.com to apply for jobs you really want if you don't strictly meet the requirements because supposedly most employers are flexible about requirements aren't very good tips

On the contrary, that can be a very good tip. I don't think I've ever satisfied the so-called minimum job requirements.

Even most "big box" stores I've applied to work at don't return calls from my applications, and when they do call me in for interviews I don't get hired. I don't understand why though, I go in in my best interview suit, impeccably dressed with a calm, confident and professional demeanor.

You're overqualified. I know its frustrating, but they don't want to spend the time and money training you only to see you leave when the next better job comes along. Lets face it, given your goals it doesn't take much for the next job to be better.

I have had a handful of job offers. . .but they all pan out to be scams on closer inspection...make vague claims of sky-high pay and unlimited potential...but I have to pay for training/certification/licensing type expenses up front

Let me guess, insurance and investment sales


As cliched as it sounds, its true - Its not what you know its who you know. You ultimately want to get into law, well you interned in a law office - start there. Contact the legal professionals you met there. See if they're hiring or if they know of anyone else that is hiring.

Volunteer. Most history/poli-sci majors have an interest in politics - volunteer to work for a candidate of your choice. You'll get valuable experience and more importantly make contacts. Political contacts know people, who know people that are looking for good employees. A good word on your behalf by these guys will open more doors than hundreds of random job applications.

I would like to go to law school when I can get the funding (I've taken the LSAT and did decently well, but coming up with the huge tuition isn't going to be easy).

I know a guy that worked for City government while attending law school. The City paid for his education contingent on him continuing to work for the City after he obtained his law degree - kinda like the military academies educating you in return for service. He was legal counsel for the Dept. of Metropolitan Development for however many years necessary and used those connections to get a job with a private law firm. That, in turn lead to a partnership with another law firm.


My own experience is that I obtained a summer internship for City government (using political connections). That internship turned into a part time job while I completed college. After graduation, I was hired full-time. I didn't meet the minimum qualifications in the job description, but I had already been doing the same job part-time for two years. After a total of seven years (intern, part time and full time) I used my experience and connections to get hired by a consultant. After a couple years as a consultant, I starting my own company with a guy I met while working at the City. I've been self-employed for eleven years now.

I didn't like government work, but it is an excellent stepping stone to bigger and better things - especially if you're interested in law and/or politics. Ultimately, it all boils down to connections - connections - connections.

 

[RangerWickett]

Good advice so far.

A cheap tip, if you just want 'a job' rather than something you want to stick with, is to be abso-blucking-lutely flexible with your hours. If you go to a grocery store kiosk to apply for a job, tell them you'll work ANY TIME DAY OR NIGHT. Later on you will loathe the lack of time to spend with your friends, and will dread having to stay 'til 1am to close up and clean up, but hey, you got a job. You don't have to panic quite so much anymore.

Colleges probably should, y'know, warn us liberal arts folks that we ain't gettin' a job in any career that we think matches our degree.

 

[Cutty Sark]

Given your qualifications and the jobs you said you enjoyed you should try the public library. I don't know what the requirements are in your neck of the woods, but many library systems have entry level positions that require a bachelor's. There's often a civil service test involved too, but my guess is that's actually a positive - a chance to prove that you're qualified.

Then your next step is to find someone to pay for your JD.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Every public library position I've seen requires a Masters in Library Science. I would like to work in a library I probably spent more hours in libraries growing up than everywhere else put together. But now for some reason it takes a specialized master's degree to be a librarian?