How big is my katana?

[emoplato]

The correlation is mostly to say "this is what the base game does" which gives a rough estimate of what numbers are expected within the game. That whole thing definitely changes once size increases become a factor, but that's also true of the non-exotic weapons as well.

A 19-20/x3 is actually more powerful damage-wise than an 18-20/x2 or even a 17-20/x2 weapon. Yes, the extra crit range has its own uses such as with a Prismatic Burst weapon, but that's somewhat hard to quantify even though it's obviously a "duh" enhancement for a weapon with a large threat range.

I haven't yet done the math for stuff like Flaming Burst.

The great scimitar also has competition from the elven thinblade which is noted as working with Weapon Finesse as well as getting the strength bonus from two-handed use since it doesn't have the rules about it like the rapier does.

As for the equation it is:
=(((wpndmg)*17)+((19/20)*(wpndmg)*2*3)+((1/20)*(wpndmg)))/20

Wpndmg should be pretty obvious, but since it's for excel use it can be replaced with a cell reference like A5. The 17 after it is the chance of being a regular hit out of 20, and of course can be changed to reflect accuracy other than "fail on a 1."

In the second set of parentheses, the 19/20 is the critical confirm chance which can likewise be changed to account for different accuracies.

The 2 after the wpndmg in that set represents the chance of rolling a critical threat. A 2 is equivalent to a 19-20 crit range. This plus the number in 17's place add up to 19, which is the chance of getting any kind of hit in this case.

The third part represents the chance to not confirm a critical hit, which in this case is 1/20 to represent a natural 1. Wpndmg is the same as elsewhere and is not multiplied because it's a failed crit.

Divide the whole thing by 20 and you get the average damage encompassing all rolls.

Thanks for the equation but you should take into consideration other exotic high critical multiplier weapons. The Talenta Sharrash is a two-handed reach weapon that deals 1d10 damage and a 19-20/x4 so my katana with your suggestion two-handed isn't worth the feat. So lets look at one-handed. As such ubercharging is out of the picture, plus it is better to have reach to keep distance and possibly have more targets in one's threat range. Your equation says +19 damage is the time where it says your fix deals more(.04 points) than the Great Scimitar. I think a reasonable strength would be 24 that gives 7, collision can add 5, 1 from magic, power attack is standard but not always fixed, and bluesteel bracers could give 4-5 but can be late when just dipping. There are loops I could use but I wanted to look at a fairly standard fighting character. As you can see it sort of teeters around +19 for a rather insignificant edge of damage. If I were to choose, the Great Scimitar could give me enervation, x bursts, enfeebling, and use Blood in the Water stance with a 10% higher chance to activate with keen.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Talenta Sharesh is a confirmed typo. Actual threat its 19-20 x2.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

The Talenta Sharrash has errata that changed it to 19-20/x2.

+19 or so is the turning point. If the character has less bonus damage than that, the great scimitar is a bit better for damage. If the character has more, then the 19-20/x3 katana is better. Keep in mind that the katana keeps getting better as you add more bonus damage. At +40 damage the 19-20/x3 katana would do 49.48125 versus the great scimitar's 48.39375, for a difference of 1.0875. It's not much, and most people wouldn't even notice the overall difference between the weapons, but that's what it is and that's exactly how most other weapons work. Heck, the difference between a scimitar and a longsword at +40 damage is only 0.915, assuming base crit.

The calculations are for the long haul by the way. A 20th level strength-based melee character had better have more than 24 strength and will definitely have more than +20 damage on his weapon. If you're going to talk about things at different levels, specify what those circumstances are and I'd be happy to post the numbers.

Comparing an 18-20/x3 katana against the great scimitar at +30 damage shows a difference of 3.68625. Add Keen to both and the difference is 8.325 at +30 damage. In other words, (and what I should have said from the start) making the katana 18-20/x3 entirely nullifies the great scimitar. It'll have the same crit range and it does more crit damage. The tradeoff is a barely noticeable 1 lower average damage against stuff that can't be crit.

Let's go with the scimitar getting 2d6 compared to your katana's 1d8, just to see how things change. Starting off at +0 damage, the scimitar does 7.6125 and the katana does 5.535 for a difference of 2.0775 in favor of the scimitar. Going up to +20 damage, the scimitar is at 29.3625. Your katana is at 30.135, which means the difference is .7725 in favor of your katana. The size difference doesn't really change the fact that your katana simply scales better than the scimitar does.

Adding keen only makes the scaling even better for the katana. A keen 2d6 scimitar starts at 8.5575. Your katana starts at 6.78375, for a difference of 1.77375. Go up to +20 damage on both though, and the scimitar is at 33.0075 while the katana is at 36.99375, a difference of 3.92625 in favor of your katana. Once again, your katana simply outdoes the great scimitar.

Since you mentioned the sharrash though, let's look at how it does:
At 1d10 it has a base average damage of 5.5. Assuming it is 19-20/x4 crit, factoring in crits and the automatic fails on a 1 shows it does an average damage of 6.77875 right from the start. Your katana is doing 4.305, for a difference of 2.47375. Adding +20 damage, we see that the sharrash is at 31.42875 and your katana's at 28.905, for a difference of 2.52375. That's greater than the previous difference, which shows that the sharrash with base crit will always do better than your katana. Add keen to both and they start off at 8.31875 and 5.27625 respectively, for a difference of 3.0425. Going up to +20 damage, the difference becomes 3.1425, so once again we see the sharrash without errata always does better than your katana.

What's my point with all this? Think carefully about what crit numbers you give your weapons. It's quite possible the designers realized the sharrash scaled exceptionally well and decided that the scaling and reach and ability to make trip attacks made for a more powerful weapon than they actually wanted to produce.

 

[The Red King]

See? Everyone is always upset about the "length" of their "Sword". This is why I exclusivly use a Claymore.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

I think if everyone had their choice they'd use pre-errata bladed gauntlets, made from Kaorti Resin of course. 17-20/x4 before keen and such is quite nuts.

 

[emoplato]

The Talenta Sharrash has errata that changed it to 19-20/x2.

+19 or so is the turning point. If the character has less bonus damage than that, the great scimitar is a bit better for damage. If the character has more, then the 19-20/x3 katana is better. Keep in mind that the katana keeps getting better as you add more bonus damage. At +40 damage the 19-20/x3 katana would do 49.48125 versus the great scimitar's 48.39375, for a difference of 1.0875. It's not much, and most people wouldn't even notice the overall difference between the weapons, but that's what it is and that's exactly how most other weapons work. Heck, the difference between a scimitar and a longsword at +40 damage is only 0.915, assuming base crit.

Ah, sneaky errata, okay what about the Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer? As far as I know that is 1d12 19-20/x4.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Ah, sneaky errata, okay what about the Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer? As far as I know that is 1d12 19-20/x4.

That mostly depends on where you look it up, even within the book. In the minotaur's stat block, the greathammer is noted as just being x4. The goliath greathammer is the same weapon and also noted as being just x4. It was also reprinted in Elder Evils as x4.

At the moment I'm trying to find the place where the designers noted it as a misprint, but haven't yet seen it online. There's no official errata for the MMIV.