How can I avoid a Monty-Haul campaign in DnD?

[S'mon]

I learned this the hard way a couple of campaigns ago, you cannot ask the players what they do next and then spend 2+ hours waiting for an actual response. You will waste everyone's time. This is when your preparation comes into play. At that point LEAD them.

By the same token when the players are on the move, the best thing to do is get out of the way and "see with them" where it leads. This is where your preparation also pays off - improvisation is 90% preparation couched to look like you just thought that up.

That's great advice, yes (sorry can't XP!). You've identified both the dangers of the linear railroady GM, but also the purist sandboxer - the guy who insists it's 'not a real sandbox' if he ever has stuff happen that's not player-initiated. You show the good middle path - be ready to follow where the players lead, but also have plenty of stuff ready to run if they prefer a reactive stance.

 

[pemerton]

Hmm - the GM moving the game forward by following the players' leads, and pushing them hard when they slow down - if only someone could start a thread on scene-framing . . .

 

[Neonchameleon]

Just bumping this because of an insight I read I think on grognards.txt recently. Monty Haul DMs used to be a big problem - but that's a matter of playstyle. It used to be common for PCs to be taken between different games by different DMs - in which case one DM giving out ten times as much treasure as another was a problem. But if the PC sticks to the same campaign (as is much more common these days) the problems are almost non-existant as all the PCs are about of the same level of wealth.

The problem of too much money in D&D can be illustrated by imagining giving one person the Iron Man armour. He's at that point effectively five levels above everyone else and the adventure design; if everyone is, the DM can just raise the power level but if only one person is it's either challenge Iron Man with something that would squish everyone or challenge everyone else and have Iron Man blow through it all or take the armour away. All choices are terrible all because someone gave out a suit of Iron Man armour in his game and you didn't in yours.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Just bumping this because of an insight I read I think on grognards.txt recently..

I don't mean to stir interforum drama but I would be wary of obtaining insight from a place that regularly reposts and mocks statements by members of this forum (and others) or targets people for ridicule for basically being older gamers.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I don't mean to stir interforum drama but I would be wary of obtaining insight from a place that regularly reposts and mocks statements by members of this forum (and others) or targets people for ridicule for basically being older gamers.

Um no. That's not what they do. Anyone who tries mocking people for being older gamers gets mocked in that thread as hard as anyone else. What they mock people for is generally either a "Get Off My Lawn" attitude or creepy sexual fetishes infecting gaming (and there are far too many of those latter). If you're e.g. RPG.net's Old Geezer (playing D&D since 1972, never wanted to update but quite happy with the idea others have their fun most of the time) they generally quote approvingly.

If they'd mocked people just for being older gamers, they'd have been mocking any mention of Monty Haul DMs as a very old trope. Instead the insight picked up there was a measure of respect - why Monty Haul DMs used to be considered a problem and why it was sensible that they were. Actually approving of the old ways where the old ways were useful. But seeing them as tools that worked well under set conditions (that normally don't apply these days). This is the absolute opposite of targetting people for basically being older gamers.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Um no. That's not what they do. Anyone who tries mocking people for being older gamers gets mocked in that thread as hard as anyone else. What they mock people for is generally either a "Get Off My Lawn" attitude or creepy sexual fetishes infecting gaming (and there are far too many of those latter). If you're e.g. RPG.net's Old Geezer (playing D&D since 1972, never wanted to update but quite happy with the idea others have their fun most of the time) they generally quote approvingly.

If they'd mocked people just for being older gamers, they'd have been mocking any mention of Monty Haul DMs as a very old trope. Instead the insight picked up there was a measure of respect - why Monty Haul DMs used to be considered a problem and why it was sensible that they were. Actually approving of the old ways where the old ways were useful. But seeing them as tools that worked well under set conditions (that normally don't apply these days). This is the absolute opposite of targetting people for basically being older gamers.

if you say so. It is a pretty hateful forum in opinion. And what I see is them routinely mocking people for basically having older styles of play. There also seem to be other social issues that are of genuine concern to some posters there, but that doesnt change the fact that mostly they just make fun of people for playing the game differently from them or having different opinions about gaming than them.

i myselkf have been reposted there for posts that basically were about playstyle and they usually labeled me "Some old grog".

 

[Neonchameleon]

if you say so. It is a pretty hateful forum in opinion.

It's a forum that goes hunting for trouble - sometimes to mock, sometimes to do something about. (A good example of doing something about trouble would be removing the kiddy porn from Reddit - another Goon project).

And what I see is them routinely mocking people for basically having older styles of play.

[Citation Needed]

There also seem to be other social issues that are of genuine concern to some posters there, but that doesnt change the fact that mostly they just make fun of people for playing the game differently from them or having different opinions about gaming than them.

i myselkf have been reposted there for posts that basically were about playstyle and they usually labeled me "Some old grog".

And on this very forum I've been called a "shrieking zealot" by name with absolutely no moderator action taken so far as I could tell (and yes, I did report the post). I've been told frequently enough that 4e isn't D&D and a few times that it isn't an RPG on this board - and one of the tiny handful of times I've been modded here was one occasion on which I objected strongly. And there are playstyle issues and playstyle issues.

 

[Bedrockgames]

It's a forum that goes hunting for trouble - sometimes to mock, sometimes to do something about. (A good example of doing something about trouble would be removing the kiddy porn from Reddit - another Goon project).

You can wrap it up in whatever language you want. Just because posters on something awful have done something good about child pornography on reddit (and I dont know enough about that situation to say whether they have or have not) that doesn't make the behavior on grognard text good. What I see there is mostly about mocking people for liking different, usually older, playstyles. Occassionally, like on any forum, people make sound points. You also see a lot of them taking what people say out of context and trying to make them look like bad people.

[Citation Needed]

No it isnt. I dont need a citation to verify my own opinion of grognard text. People can go there for themselves to judge. I am not going to engage in grognard text behavior and go post hunting. I think any reasonable person who views that forum will reach similar conclusions to my own.

In fact i dont think folks should take my word forit (or yours)-----that is half the problem with a place pike grognard text. They should check it out for themselves and decide.

And on this very forum I've been called a "shrieking zealot" by name with absolutely no moderator action taken so far as I could tell (and yes, I did report the post). I've been told frequently enough that 4e isn't D&D and a few times that it isn't an RPG on this board - and one of the tiny handful of times I've been modded here was one occasion on which I objected strongly. And there are playstyle issues and playstyle issues.

Sure, and i have also seen you dish out as much as you take here. People have called me names here too. But I have also seen mods here step in an put a stop to the behavior you describe when they become aware of it. The difference between enworld and grognard txt is people here dont hide in an echochamber or a subscription fee. You have to defend your opinions on enworld. Its free to post here and there are lots of different points of view. Grognard text is basically about posting what people say from other forums there to make fun of them, in an environment where they can't defend themselves.

 

[Loonook]

Um no. That's not what they do. Anyone who tries mocking people for being older gamers gets mocked in that thread as hard as anyone else. What they mock people for is generally either a "Get Off My Lawn" attitude or creepy sexual fetishes infecting gaming (and there are far too many of those latter). If you're e.g. RPG.net's Old Geezer (playing D&D since 1972, never wanted to update but quite happy with the idea others have their fun most of the time) they generally quote approvingly.

Please. One of our wonderful (maybe still around but don't think so) forum regulars used to post every update of my Economy and D&D thread. I finally just said screw it and bounced to other locales, do the work where I don't need to worry about some idiots deciding that having reproducible, understandable, and comprehensive rules for commerce that work with and inform a stable vision of the psuedoeconomy of D&D means I somehow have autism.

So I write my blog, do the occasional assistance with someone who brings up the topic on /tg/, and do my own thing. I cancelled my subscription service here because I just don't come here enough anymore, and when people shoot me a line I throw them the latest spreadsheet or .exe I'm working on. Keeps my stress level low, lets me discuss at my leisure, and has actually helped me to create stuff for the merchant lord game I'm running that is pretty neat.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Please. One of our wonderful (maybe still around but don't think so) forum regulars used to post every update of my Economy and D&D thread. I finally just said screw it and bounced to other locales, do the work where I don't need to worry about some idiots deciding that having reproducible, understandable, and comprehensive rules for commerce that work with and inform a stable vision of the psuedoeconomy of D&D means I somehow have autism.

So I write my blog, do the occasional assistance with someone who brings up the topic on /tg/, and do my own thing. I cancelled my subscription service here because I just don't come here enough anymore, and when people shoot me a line I throw them the latest spreadsheet or .exe I'm working on. Keeps my stress level low, lets me discuss at my leisure, and has actually helped me to create stuff for the merchant lord game I'm running that is pretty neat.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

one of my major issues is they sometimes go after the same poster repeatedly. For a subforum that likes to claim it has the moral hghground grognardtxt engages in lots of questionable and cruel behavior.