How can the Module be updated?

[Woas]

Oh! Adventure modules should be collectable. WotC should produce a large number of adventures and then sell them in adventure packs or like 3 or 4 adventures per pack. Some adventures would be rare, uncommon, common. People could like trade their adventures and stuff...


More realisticly, I think modules should be full of new content and rules. If all a module does is pick a dozen or so monsters straight out of the Monster Manual and string a simple plot between the encounters, I don't really need those. I can do that quick enough already in my busy life. Instead, have the modules take the fore-front of introducing new spells, monsters, races, magic items, &c. Those would be fun.

 

[RangerWickett]

Marketing adventure-aids to players won't work, I don't think. You already have an issue with adventures themselves that only a small fraction of the GMs who buy game products will want to buy an adventure (let's say 1/10). If we figure a similar fraction (1/10) of players would be interested in adventure-aids, we have to multiply the two fractions. Only 1 in 10 players are playing that adventure, and only 1 in 10 of those players will buy the aid, so now you're only marketing to 1 in 100 of your potential players.

Of course, those numbers came out of my rear pants pocket, but you can see the point I'm trying to make.

If I'm reading things right, the biggest money-makers WotC has right now are their collectible games -- Magic, D&D minis, Star Wars minis, and other various card games. What they could try to up the sales of adventures would be to bundle adventures in with existing collectible items.

F'rinstance, imagine there was a collectible D&D starter set. You buy it for $25, and you get the basic game rules, the rules of the D&D minis game, a random adventure, and 20 minis that fit that adventure. Every year WotC could put out a new series of linked adventures, and have the mini sets that come out be maybe 30% filled with minis intended for the adventure series.

Say they start off with GDQ. The starter set has a short 'defend the town against some giants' adventure, with a few giant minis, and minis for the various pre-statted PCs, and for various henchmen of the giants (because, sadly, you can't make a mini set that only has giants; you've got to have some variety).

Then there'd be three expansions in August, January, and April. Giants would be released in August at Gen Con, and would have 30% of its minis made up of things the party could run into during the Giants series of adventures, and each mini box would have a small folded up booklet with a scenario that fits into the Giants adventure. In September they'd release a Giants boxed set, which contains everything you need for the adventure, including minis and maps.

Now normally you couldn't do this for just any old adventure -- economies of scale would make it unfeasible to create minis that would only be used by 10% of your customers -- but since you're already making the minis anyway to fit into the miniature game, you don't have to pay folks to design new minis or set up the mini-mint or whatever it is to pump out new items. You just make sure that the minis you're making can serve double purposes.

In January you'd release the Depths of the Earth expansion with affiliated adventures, and in February you'd put out the complete Depths of the Earth boxed set. In April you'd release the Vault of the Drow expansion, and in May you'd put out the complete Vault of the Drow boxed set.

Like Magic, you'd have a new cycle every year, to keep things fresh. Players of the D&D minis game would just pick up packs of minis for their warbands, but the inclusion of interconnected scenarios might get them curious about what the big adventure is. People who buy the pre-packaged adventure would also be exposed to the rules for the minis game, and they'd have an incentive to buy the minis boxes if they wanted to add to their campaign.

Does that sound like a valid market strategy?

 

[Frostmarrow]

Comic

Picture this:

A comic that describes bad dudes in preparation of some dastardly act. They make connections, beat up innocents, and gather their resources. When they are done and the crime is almost carried through the story stops and the end is left hanging. (It's important that this part is as good as it can be. When I was a child I read a lot of Phantom comics and they all began with the bad guys and their preparations. Once I got older I only read about the bad guys since once Phantom arrived on stage it was pretty much a no-brainer to figure out the ending. SMACK. WHAM. POW.)

A few comic-pages are then devoted to hooks and homebase stuff for the PCs. Some interaction between NPCs is going on in these frames.

In the third part some general instructions are given to the DM. Note that the actual PCs are never shown in frames. (In the same vein as the PCs are left out of boxed text.)

The last few pages of the comic shows the set up for the final battle or other set-piece.

The appendix might give stats and stuff for new things.

 

[Hussar]

*snip*


More realisticly, I think modules should be full of new content and rules. If all a module does is pick a dozen or so monsters straight out of the Monster Manual and string a simple plot between the encounters, I don't really need those. I can do that quick enough already in my busy life. Instead, have the modules take the fore-front of introducing new spells, monsters, races, magic items, &c. Those would be fun.

Y'know, that's an excellent idea IMO. Right now, we see new rule books with short adventures in the back. Sandstorm was like this. As were a number of other products. Why not reverse the order? Focus the module on a new group of PrC's, monsters, magic items and possibly feats and show how they can be brought together into a cohesive unit in a single module. The new PrC format at WOTC is trying to favour fluff over crunch, so why not take it a few steps further? 40 page module with 20 pages of new material. Or whatever the breakdown becomes. Reminds me of the old S Hidden Shrine of Tsojcanth module which had a whole bunch of goodies in the back - new demons, magic items and such.

I like that idea.

RangerWicket - I like that too. But, that would be something only WOTC could likely do given the pretty high costs associated.

As far as players not buying a Players Pack for a module, well, considering some of the new mega modules are likely going to last a given group a couple of years, I'm not sure if it isn't a bad thing to try to snag them as well. Going through something like Shackled City is a pretty major time investment, so you might want to go after the players as well as the DM.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

More realisticly, I think modules should be full of new content and rules. If all a module does is pick a dozen or so monsters straight out of the Monster Manual and string a simple plot between the encounters, I don't really need those. I can do that quick enough already in my busy life. Instead, have the modules take the fore-front of introducing new spells, monsters, races, magic items, &c. Those would be fun.

While I would never want to see a module introducing new rules (ie game mechanics which is the first thing I think of when I think 'rules' )to the game things like magic items, monsters etc would be great. Even something as simple as an advanced version of a monster or one with class levels would be good. I'm hesitant about stuff like spells and races however. Lots of people use their own settings and adding in a whole new race would probably not sit well. Also when, in the past, new spells have been introduced they are often there to cover a plot hole in the module itself rather than being a good spell in its own right. The whole point of this exercise (I think) is to m ake adventure modules appeal to a broader sampling of people.

To me I would like to see modules do things I can't normally have time for. Intricate plots, mystery building, city areas that can be plopped into any city - things of that nature that are time consuming and (for me) hard to make up on my own. I can bang out a dungeon in 30 minutes flat (faster if I auto generate the map online) but truly well crafted encounters with RP and the chance of fighting are much harder to come up with (especially if the PCs have deviated greatly from my plot line). The least desirable type of adventure would be one centered on a dungeon of any kind.

 

[JimAde]

Great thread. The most immediately appealing idea I've seen so far is an adventure with cardstock minis of all the creatures in it. Ideally they'd be DDM-style prepainted plastic minis but, as was said, that would be very expensive. A nice page or two of cardstock minis and a download location/code to get a pdf so I could print more. That would r0xx0rs my b0xx0rs

Frostmarrow's idea of the comic that the PCs finish is really interesting. I don't know if it would fly, but it would certainly mesh well with the cardstock minis idea. By definition you'd have art for all the villains, since it would have to be done for the comic anyway.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Also when, in the past, new spells have been introduced they are often there to cover a plot hole in the module itself rather than being a good spell in its own right.

Given WoTCs set up with game designers and game developers I don't think this necessarily would be a problem. The game designers come up with cool stuff and the game developers check the balance issues and tries to find a way for the cool stuff into the game. A third bunch game authors(?) could be served by the game designers/developers in the same way.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Frostmarrow's idea of the comic that the PCs finish is really interesting. I don't know if it would fly, but it would certainly mesh well with the cardstock minis idea. By definition you'd have art for all the villains, since it would have to be done for the comic anyway.

A lot of cool stuff could easliy be explained in the background section of the module if it were made in comic-form. Imagine a bunch of hobgoblins in a barracks getting march orders, the frame shows the hobs' reaction to such news and in the background you'd might spot a hob hiding his gems in his pillow.

Another advantage might be that you wouldn't need to study a comic as intensively as a regular module. Modules always tells you to read through it at least once. It would be a lot quicker to prepare a module in comic form. You'd probably just need to read it once (if that) because you could read it without effort during the game.

The important part is the background story is interesting and shows the bad guys doing the stuff that will eventually lead up to the adventure.

 

[NCSUCodeMonkey]

Maybe there's already a product out there doing this, but I'd like to see adventures with a new format. What I mean is that most of the adventures that I own have a linear or flow-chart based plot with supporting NPCs, maps, etc. But that's not the stuff that I spend most of my time on when I make adventures. The majority of my time is spent determining the major players, their goals, methods, resources, etc. That way, when (not if) the PCs do something that you never even considered, you know how the environment will respond because you know everyone's motivations. So, I guess I'd like to see modules that are devoted more to completely describing the environment of the adventure and then suggesting entry points for the players. Then the players' actions would create the plot. Of course, you'd need some helpful hints for getting the players on track, but I'm sure the idea is pretty sound because that's what I do in my games.

If there are already products doing that, drop a link to them in this thread. Goodness knows I could stand to reduce my prep time .

NCSUCodeMonkey

 

[petenik]

6. Modular modules. I'm not sure how this would work, but I'm envisioning a series of very small modules that you can play in series. Similar to the pocket modules that AEG pumped out for 3e, but, with a common storyline or theme. A sort of collectable module game. This is a half baked idea and hopefully someone else can make sense of it.

For the life of me I can't remember the name, but Goodman Games has a module that has five adventures. You play each one in order but not consecutively as the first adventure is for character levels 1-3, the second is levels 5-7, and so on, up to level 13. The idea is to play part one, let the group do some other things (like, I dunno, play other Goodman modules ;-) ), then when they're level appropriate, play the next adventure.

All of the adventures build on the previous one making a nice, continuous story that you can use for flavor or, if you're the ambitious type, make a full campaign out of it with some tweaks.