How Come There Is No "Wish" Spell?

[victorysaber]

Well, at least that's the news, on the front page, with the following link

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3871371&postcount=25

Is anybody sad there's no "wish"? The ultimate spell, the most powerful thing you can cast, the expression of supreme power that every wizard aspires to is... gone?

Sob.

 

[DandD]

Wish isn't the ultimate spell. There are far more higher spells in the epic category list. Spells that destroy entire countries, do insane high damage that can even kill gods, and so on and so fort.
Also, it was a headache for the Game Master to see how he has to handle this spell. In the end, the spell became nothing more than either total GM-fiat that never made players happy, or a permanent +1 ability boost for the cost of 5,000 XP.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I never liked wish. Possibly from playing with a DM who loved to interpret player statements in the worst possible manner (which was not limited to wish).

It was far too open-ended. So much so, it barely counted as a rule. 3e's attempt to clean up limted wish and wish by giving a fuller account of what is possible was a good effort but it's probably better to just remove it.

Without xp loss, how could it be balanced vs other 9th level spells? The other balancing mechanism, the DM's interpretation, was far too variable from game to game.

 

[Wormwood]

Good night, and good riddance.

3e Wish may have been a lot of things, but as the 'ultimate spell' it failed miserably.

I prefer my plot devices to be unfettered by mechanics.

 

[Alzrius]

I miss wish. I blame 3/3.5 for its 4E demise.

Wish, to me, was always a spell that was more about role-playing than number-crunching. It required both the player and the DM to actually think about what'd happen instead of just rolling damage and saves - you had wild interpretations, unexpected meanings, limited with some suggestions and hard-and-fast rules in the spell description itself. It was a lot of fun.

Then 3E, with it's obsessive need to balance everything, ramped up the suggestions for exactly how much power wish had, by comparing it to what level of other spells it could cast. It essentially turned wish into a stronger form of anyspell. Questions of flavor were tossed aside in favor of making sure it was ABSOLUTELY BALANCED, and now 4E, which seems to be geared to making sure every last single thing is tested, tweaked, and market-researched to be "fun," has taken that to its logical conclusion and just thrown the spell out entirely.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Yep, when I had my chat with David Noonan Saturday night he confirmed wish is gone – thank god.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

No, I am not sad at all.

The problem with the spell as it is written in 3rd edition is that the name is not quite accurate. A better name would be "Do any one thing in a fight short of declare absolute victory". In a game where nearly 90% of the rules are combat related, a spell that lets you selectively edit reality does not really have much of a place.

As a fantasy trope, a wish is a rare and magical thing that lets you do nearly anything at the cost of possibly screwing yourself if you do not word your wish carefully. Having such a spell in the game just creates all sorts of balancing problems simply because the effect is so variable.

How do you balance the following 3 wishes against one another?
- I wish my friend John the Fighter was alive and well.
- I wish every person within the city of Happyville to be blind.
- I wish to be a god.

And even if you decide that the first 2 are reasonable, what difference is there between a god, and someone who can perform feats like the first two once per day (XP cost notwithstanding)?

Let them take the spell out of general use. I am sure a Ring of Wishes will still exist in the magic item tables, and that the general effects of the exsiting wish spell will still be present in the game in some form.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Questions of flavor were tossed aside in favor of making sure it was ABSOLUTELY BALANCED, and now 4E, which seems to be geared to making sure every last single thing is tested, tweaked, and market-researched to be "fun," has taken that to its logical conclusion and just thrown the spell out entirely.

In all fairness, I rather prefer they went to the trouble to make everything balanced rather than saying 'lets make everything balanced except for this one rather glaring and obvious thing'.

For all the role playing elements, this is still a game.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Li Shenron]

A little sad for the loss of something very D&D, but I rarely play high level enough to see Wish being cast.

Also consider that Wish uses included the following:

- cast any other spell below a certain level: I never liked this, it's way too flexible as a concept (the xp cost anyway made this rarely worth doing, much better to try buy a few scrolls for emergencies); hopefully if Wish is gone, Miracle is gone too, at least with regard to this specific use

- get a permanent benefit for 5000Xp cost; it was an interesting option, but not something that the game really needed

- "ask anything": this is the option that requires DM's call, and was never fully covered by the rules; I am sure you can still have "ring of 3 wishes" or genie's wishes in the game for this, without having an actual spell on the Wizard's list

Eventually, I'm only (a little) sad because this is once more a "it's hard to balance, so we just remove it from the game" design choice.

 

[Wormwood]

Eventually, I'm only (a little) sad because this is once more a "it's hard to balance, so we just remove it from the game" design choice.

Perhaps the DMG will introduce something similar to the Eldritch Machine (from Eberron).

All the power and versatility of a plot device without the game balance issues inherent in spell design.